Ireland vs England

[smartcooky]

Smartcooky, out of interest, who would you rate as, say, the 5 best referees at the moment? You're far more qualified to talk about refs that every other poster here. Wayne Barnes and Alain Rolland would be near the top in my opinion but both can cop a lot of flak for being overly fussy.

Based on what I have seen of Super 15 and 6N this season
1. Craig Joubert -
2 - 5. Alan Rolland, Peter Fitzgibbon, Wayne Barnes & Vinnie Munro

Craig is clearly top if the heap at the moment. He exudes confidence in his decision making and makes very few errors.

The rest on my list don't have a lot between them.

Vinnie is not on the iRB Test panel but IMO he ought to be, and is more deserving of being there that some who are. He relates well to the players, and doesn't take any crap, without being overbearing. His comeback to Conrad Smith on the weekend was typical... Smith had just been tackled but wasn't held, however, instead of getting up, he crawled a few metres along the ground. Vinnie penalised him..

Smith: "But ref, I wasn't held!!"

Munro: "Rugby 101, play the game on your feet!


IMO, the worst referee performances this 6N have been Kaplan and Lawrence (NZ)

 

[Peat]

I didn't notice SOB break three tackles from a standing start this 6N. I didn't notice anyone doing it.

 

[lucky number 7]

I didn't notice SOB break three tackles from a standing start this 6N. I didn't notice anyone doing it.

I didnt see Ferris Break 3 either in that video the final player did catch him...not to take anything away from that run but if memory serves the players were backtacking or static when he ran into them..cant watch at the minute as In class however but thats what I remember

 

[Logorrhea]

Would agree with this.

I wouldnt. Proven Lion me arse. Did he play a test? Talking up a partnership with Heaslip but O'Brien plays with Heaslip every week. What twaddle.

Still think Ferris is class though, and I havent a clue who I'd drop but its great to be in the position to debate it. Heres one for you. Why not drop Heaslip and play O'Brien at 8? Heaslip was the lightest forward on the park last Saturday.

 

[lynam1104]

I think it should just be on form if SOB is playing better than Ferris play SOB and vice versa or we could put SOB at 7.

 

[munstermuffin]

Smartcooky is Vinnie Munroe still young enough or has he been around a while. If he is good he should be there. The French are giving us awful refs.
Nice to see Fitzgibbon mentioned as I think he is an underrated ref and should be given more big games.
And did I read somewhere James Jones will be slowly progressed in next year on International scene. That could be awful.

As regards SOB and Ferris debate. Should we not just treat in like ROG and Sexton. Support who starts and expect big impact off the other when they come on. We finally getting to have a bench that can impact a game and subs that don't weaken the team.

 

[durbutter]

Heaslip was the lightest forward on the park last Saturday.

!!!!******* hell!!!!
Na, Iwouldnt drop Heaslip, fisrtly cos he's class and second of all cos i hear Leinster fans say SOB doesn't have all the skills to make him a top class eight.

I reckon its a straight shoot between SOB and Ferris. Ferris is always injured though so I'd imagine he'd be the bencher.

When you think of all the on form good back rows we have, the mind boggles at the fact that Leamy has been the bench option the whole 6N....

 

[coonor]

I think we are in a great position but I don't think Ireland have used O'Brien as effectivly as they could have. He is good at offloading out of tackles and we saw that when he offloaded to BOD after bouncing Banahan but he hasn't got a brilliant pass. Ireland needed to get support players closer to him. Ferris is bit more agresive at tackling and I actually think he is slightly more physical. As said before it will be on form and I think we should be switching are backrow round to keep them on their toes. Ferris should come back in for the WC warm up games and we should see a backrow of O'Brien, Ferris and Heaslip. Wallace will have a big part to play but I wouldn't want him to be playing to many games during the world cup as that could exhaust him. O'Brien is also a great bench option becuase he can cover the whole backrow. On Heaslip I think he is a class player and he is a pure athlete. Lets not forget he was out injured and has really only just reached ful fitness. He has the ability to raise his game a times when he is needed. For example when he made that brilliant steal when England were on our try line. He is also improving in the lineout. Many people said our back row did not have a real ball stealer but I think our backrow has worked well and Ireland have actually won the most turnovers this championship. If we can keep the penalty count down every player in the backrow is capable of stealing balls at the breakdown and I think we have great ball retention aswell with Healy doing some great rucking work and he has also cut down on the peanalties. Our technique of olding the ball carrier up also works and I must admit DOC an POC have been the centre of that tactic. All in all I don't think not having a traditional 7 has affected us a much as people thought but I would take Jennings to NZ just incase.

 

[Teh Mite]

Question:

Who's going to be the "greatest player in the world" to come out of Ireland in 2012?

 

[durbutter]

Question:

Who's going to be the "greatest player in the world" to come out of Ireland in 2012?

Same as every other year; Paul McShane

 

[Logorrhea]

Who's going to be the "greatest player in the world" to come out of Ireland in 2012?

Dominic Ryan I'd say, though maybe Ruddock, Macken, Conway, or Spence could break through to the internation side.

Any new English players you expect to fall flat on their faces and underachieve in 2012?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I don't buy into this gloating about beating England- it smacks of being ungracious winners. That said, this is pretty funny:

 

[Logorrhea]

That is seriously funny

 

[munstermuffin]

Ha ha brilliant

 

[gingergenius]

However, there seems to be a huge disparity between the level of criticism suffered by referees as opposed to that suffered by players. A referee misses three crooked throws to line-outs and he cops a barrage of criticism from fans and the press alike. A player throws three crooked throws to line-outs, the player is hardly mentioned, but the referee is labeled a pedantic prat. The referee can't win.

fair point.

 

[Peat]

I didnt see Ferris Break 3 either in that video the final player did catch him...not to take anything away from that run but if memory serves the players were backtacking or static when he ran into them..cant watch at the minute as In class however but thats what I remember

Nope, the fourth got him. First turned and faced from the tap penalty, second did, third was backtracking already to get him, the fourth forced him to go to earth.

Ferris would have played for the Lions hadn't he got injured.

Based on this 6N though, you would drop Heaslip to make way for him. Hardly fair, but he was the worst of the Irish back-rows.

Oh, and Gilroy/Marshall will be the greatest players in the world. Possibly.

 

[shtove]

I don't buy into this gloating about beating England- it smacks of being ungracious winners. That said, this is pretty funny:

Was going to give logo thumbs up, but that's thumbs upper. Hehe.

Still, Ireland screwed up another slam campaign. Not good.

 

[coonor]

The world cup warm up games now become so important to both these teams. England's young players will need game time to gain experience and England will need to sort out their centre problem. Ireland must build and really take this opportunity to get fringe players ready encase they are needed. We need to get different centres playing because if BOD is injured we really are in the sh*t. We either need to bring a new 13 into the team such as Spence or we will need to give either Earls or Bowe a go there and possibly move BOD to 12 just encase he needs to play inside in an emergency. McFadden should continue to keep playing and we need to decide on the backrow we are taking to New Zealand. Ferris, Wallace, O'Brien and Heaslip are all obviously going but we need to see who else. At the moment I would take Jennings and Ryan aswell. We will also have to see if Kearney reaches form that would allow him to retake the 15 shirt. I think Touhy should be going aswell and we need to see him play. I was watching the Guinness area 22 on RTE and everyone is concerned about the use of the bench by the Irish management. Kidney seems to have the bench all wrong. Leamy is not the best player for the bench and Jennings would have provided a different game style. There is no need for P. Wallace to be on the bench because we need sufficient cover in the back three and he does not provide that. If our back are for example 10. Sexton 11. Earls 12. darcy 13. BOD 14. Bowe 15. Kearney We would need ROG on the bench with either Trimble or Fitz. Fitz would be the better bench option as he can cover all back three positions and possibly outside centre. We also have a problem with what seem to be preordained substitutions. We need to play the game as it is and we shouldn't just make substitution for the hell of it. Cullen got 10 minutes spread out into around 5 caps. This is embarrassing for Cullen and really devalues caps.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

The world cup warm up games now become so important to both these teams. England's young players will need game time to gain experience and England will need to sort out their centre problem. Ireland must build and really take this opportunity to get fringe players ready encase they are needed. We need to get different centres playing because if BOD is injured we really are in the sh*t. We either need to bring a new 13 into the team such as Spence or we will need to give either Earls or Bowe a go there and possibly move BOD to 12 just encase he needs to play inside in an emergency. McFadden should continue to keep playing and we need to decide on the backrow we are taking to New Zealand. Ferris, Wallace, O'Brien and Heaslip are all obviously going but we need to see who else. At the moment I would take Jennings and Ryan aswell. We will also have to see if Kearney reaches form that would allow him to retake the 15 shirt. I think Touhy should be going aswell and we need to see him play. I was watching the Guinness area 22 on RTE and everyone is concerned about the use of the bench by the Irish management. Kidney seems to have the bench all wrong. Leamy is not the best player for the bench and Jennings would have provided a different game style. There is no need for P. Wallace to be on the bench because we need sufficient cover in the back three and he does not provide that. If our back are for example 10. Sexton 11. Earls 12. darcy 13. BOD 14. Bowe 15. Kearney We would need ROG on the bench with either Trimble or Fitz. Fitz would be the better bench option as he can cover all back three positions and possibly outside centre. We also have a problem with what seem to be preordained substitutions. We need to play the game as it is and we shouldn't just make substitution for the hell of it. Cullen got 10 minutes spread out into around 5 caps. This is embarrassing for Cullen and really devalues caps.

Good post.
Agree with all. I think we have a potentially cracking bench if we use our resources correctly. ATM my full strength Ireland 22 would look like this;

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. DOC/Cullen
5. POC
6. Ferris/O'Brien
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Earls

16. Flannery
17. Court
18. Cullen/DOC
19. Ferris/O'Brien
20. Sexton
21. O'Gara
22. McFadden


Nothing wrong with that bench. Bear in mind Trimble, Kearney and Jennings amongst other good players are being left out there. there's no need to have the likes of Leamy or Paddy Wallace in the 22 imo

 

[munstermuffin]

One thing I can guarantee is Spence, Domnic Ryan, Felix Jones or Gilroy etc will be going to World Cup.
Very unlikely that Kidney will bring any young uncapped guys regardless of form.