Ireland v Argentina - 15/11/2024 - (20.10)

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think there are a few cracks for Ireland that are a worry, and somewhat unavoidable with the pathway you run. Hooker and prop depth issues, then I think Farrell maybe needs to be called on his conservative selections, been very slow to start the turnover to the new generation. Cormac to me should have been starting last weekend at 6 for example imo.

Overall I think Ireland will remain very good and maybe this November will highlight the need to transition with next year being slightly painful but needed moving on from older generation.

Hooker is fine, our third choice is either dust or not match fit but he hasn't long left, there's talent coming through.

Prop is a huge worry, we need lads to step up. Clarkson did well today, he needs to keep it up and build his body up to what is required at this level. All other talents are young guys with little enough pro experience, hopefully it comes on well.

I'm still mot worried regardless of what happens in the next 6 months (unless it's losses to Fiji, Wales and Italy). We have a reputation of peaking between world cups but we generally peak into them but get it wrong when tlwe're there. Last year was great, we were a Jordie Barrett or a different referee away from a final, it would have been enough to win in 2019 with change and get to a final in 2015. 2019 was a tactical failure, Johnny mentions that in his book (can expand if anyone wants) and 2015 was injuries. Our worst years in the las three world cup cycles have been 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2019 (as above), 2020 and 2021. The system works, we just need things to fall our way like anyone else.

Watched the game back and Crowley is a great systems 10 when things are going well. Can't fault that first half. His 20 minutes in the second were diabolical, regardless of ability to do so, no 10 should be taking crash balls and he took 3 or 4. It's blinkered play and if he can't bring his skills to a side that doesn't have perfect ball he won't last as our 10 qith Sam behind. Sam looked raw but his skills are so obviously at a higher level, treat the kid right and he'll be one of the best in the game.

The team isn't fit, whether it's short term pain for long term gain remains to be seen but all the lads look significantly bigger than 12 months ago and fade away after 55-60 minutes. The old bench is compounding that.

Ultimately, how we played the first half and our sin bin period would match up to anyone even though it wasn't perfect.

There wasn't a knock-on, Ireland's football style appealing at every ruck swayed the officials. Argentina were absolutely robbed. Ireland are such a dislikeable side - off their feet at every ruck, constantly appealing for decisions, and kill opponents ball every time they defend in the red zone. I didn't know that putting your foot over the ball whilst coming in from the side was legal either. Ireland are just cheats, pure and simple. They have a different offside line to every other international team as well. You just knew Argentina would get screwed tonight, it was obvious.

Were you on the pitch with a better view than the ref? Otherwise that's an emotional response.

People are begging for change in world rugby but when it's Ireland, no one wants it. The SH don't like that they don't routinely **** on us anymore and the UK hate that their former colony is doing things better than them (not exclusive to rugby either). We have given away 26 penalties in two games, clearly not being reffed to a different standard.

It's grand, we don't care if people like us anymore here. It held us back.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I don't get the knock on conspiracy. That's pretty verifiable. If arg would have been screwed there would have been a soft holding on or off feet penalty.

 

[Reiser99]

I don't get the knock on conspiracy. That's pretty verifiable. If arg would have been screwed there would have been a soft holding on or off feet penalty.

I think complaint would likely be Irish players doing something illegal to disrupt the ball. Tbh the second YC is what cost them the game.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bringing up colonialism when someone doesn't like a side with players like McCarthy, Ryan and POM in is wild work

 

[OllyM97]

Hooker is fine, our third choice is either dust or not match fit but he hasn't long left, there's talent coming through.

Prop is a huge worry, we need lads to step up. Clarkson did well today, he needs to keep it up and build his body up to what is required at this level. All other talents are young guys with little enough pro experience, hopefully it comes on well.

I'm still mot worried regardless of what happens in the next 6 months (unless it's losses to Fiji, Wales and Italy). We have a reputation of peaking between world cups but we generally peak into them but get it wrong when tlwe're there. Last year was great, we were a Jordie Barrett or a different referee away from a final, it would have been enough to win in 2019 with change and get to a final in 2015. 2019 was a tactical failure, Johnny mentions that in his book (can expand if anyone wants) and 2015 was injuries. Our worst years in the las three world cup cycles have been 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2019 (as above), 2020 and 2021. The system works, we just need things to fall our way like anyone else.

Watched the game back and Crowley is a great systems 10 when things are going well. Can't fault that first half. His 20 minutes in the second were diabolical, regardless of ability to do so, no 10 should be taking crash balls and he took 3 or 4. It's blinkered play and if he can't bring his skills to a side that doesn't have perfect ball he won't last as our 10 qith Sam behind. Sam looked raw but his skills are so obviously at a higher level, treat the kid right and he'll be one of the best in the game.

The team isn't fit, whether it's short term pain for long term gain remains to be seen but all the lads look significantly bigger than 12 months ago and fade away after 55-60 minutes. The old bench is compounding that.

Ultimately, how we played the first half and our sin bin period would match up to anyone even though it wasn't perfect.



Were you on the pitch with a better view than the ref? Otherwise that's an emotional response.

People are begging for change in world rugby but when it's Ireland, no one wants it. The SH don't like that they don't routinely **** on us anymore and the UK hate that their former colony is doing things better than them (not exclusive to rugby either). We have given away 26 penalties in two games, clearly not being reffed to a different standard.

It's grand, we don't care if people like us anymore here. It held us back.

I used to like Irish fans, but they are now the very embodiment of what English fans have been repeatedly criticised for. When the opposition play well you never give them any credit, they've only played well because you've been poor. You're arrogant and dismissive of other teams. The way Irish fans and the media talk you would have thought they had the standing in the game of the All Blacks or Springboks. There's an entitlement running right through Irish rugby that your record doesn't merit. Yes you might be "doing things better" than us at the moment, but at one of our lowest ebbs for years, we still got further than you in the RWC and stopped you winning a Grand Slam. You're obsession with England is quite sad.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Bringing up colonialism when someone doesn't like a side with players like McCarthy, Ryan and POM in is wild work

Looks like I was on the nose. Bozo had to bring up beating Fiji at the second time of asking and made up an obsession with England that really doesn't exist anymore in rugby.

You'd be surprised at how much of this line of thinking is still out there. Rugby is just a convenient way to get it out these days.

 

[Yulia]

I was watching this game as a neutral,and I wouldn't say that "Argentina were absolutely robbed" Ireland could play better,but to say that Argentina were robbed... that's an exaggeration

 

[unrated]

Ireland are not in decline this Argentina team is firmly a top four global side at the moment, beating both New Zealand and South Africa and coming very close to beating Ireland, I felt they probably had that game. Ireland did not lose to the Argentina of a few years ago this side is a different beast, did you guys notice how they attacked the rucks in packs! How they guarded it showed me their mentality is finally that of an elite rugby team

 

[McTallshort]

People are begging for change in world rugby but when it's Ireland, no one wants it. The SH don't like that they don't routinely **** on us anymore and the UK hate that their former colony is doing things better than them (not exclusive to rugby either).

It's grand, we don't care if people like us anymore here. It held us back.

All our former colonies do better than us at everything! You're not that special

 

[Horacito]

Ireland are not in decline this Argentina team is firmly a top four global side at the moment, beating both New Zealand and South Africa and coming very close to beating Ireland, I felt they probably had that game. Ireland did not lose to the Argentina of a few years ago this side is a different beast, did you guys notice how they attacked the rucks in packs! How they guarded it showed me their mentality is finally that of an elite rugby team

That's exactly my take

I think bringing up conspiracy theories for an autumn series is absurd: it's a friendly match, enf of the season, etc... no need to bring up that sorta stuff

there are things that I do take away from this: finally, Nico Sanchez has managed to bring his particular style of method acting to world rugby: the way Jack Crowley fainted after the Moroni hit was just pure Marlon Brando, he coulda been in the Old Vic playing Othello and it would've been less magnificent
For 10 years I was ashamed of Sanchez's acting, good to see someone else inherited that noble thespian tradition

second: argentina needs to find a way to get good attacking options when they can't dominate contact due to lack of Kremer or something
so, here we go France! very excited, super happy with the team
Is Juanchi Mallia the best 15 in the world, or top 3? I think he is

 

[jordiev]

That's exactly my take

I think bringing up conspiracy theories for an autumn series is absurd: it's a friendly match, enf of the season, etc... no need to bring up that sorta stuff

there are things that I do take away from this: finally, Nico Sanchez has managed to bring his particular style of method acting to world rugby: the way Jack Crowley fainted after the Moroni hit was just pure Marlon Brando, he coulda been in the Old Vic playing Othello and it would've been less magnificent
For 10 years I was ashamed of Sanchez's acting, good to see someone else inherited that noble thespian tradition

second: argentina needs to find a way to get good attacking options when they can't dominate contact due to lack of Kremer or something
so, here we go France! very excited, super happy with the team
Is Juanchi Mallia the best 15 in the world, or top 3? I think he is

I think Argentina are very much on the rise but their are some serious black holes in that player pool, if you had centres on the level of you back 3 would legitimately be a terrifying side, wonder if there is a way to get that 7's pipeline to stop funnelling wingers and have a few at 12/13. And a better SH would go miles.,

Mallia is class, and is class in pretty much every position he plays, wing, centre, fullback … been tearing up the top 14. Albanoz is a nice find as well not a clean 80 but really decent player.

Could agree more on the Crowley thing, but dont think its just a him issue, their seems to be a footballification in appeals recently and its grim.

 

[Horacito]

I think Argentina are very much on the rise but their are some serious black holes in that player pool, if you had centres on the level of you back 3 would legitimately be a terrifying side, wonder if there is a way to get that 7's pipeline to stop funnelling wingers and have a few at 12/13. And a better SH would go miles.,

Mallia is class, and is class in pretty much every position he plays, wing, centre, fullback … been tearing up the top 14. Albanoz is a nice find as well not a clean 80 but really decent player.

Could agree more on the Crowley thing, but dont think its just a him issue, their seems to be a footballification in appeals recently and its grim.

Well, I think Santi Chocobares is on that level, but it's true he's just the 1. Fighting with Ireland to the death without him is really something
you mean the sanchification of rugby

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

I was watching this game as a neutral,and I wouldn't say that "Argentina were absolutely robbed" Ireland could play better,but to say that Argentina were robbed... that's an exaggeration

For the neutral, it was an entertaining game with shifts in momentum and the outcome still in the balance until the end.
The panic & bed wetting about Ireland's decline is excessive. Our young FH's are not yet running the show, but they are being benchmarked against Sexton in his prime. Likewise, Doris is still growing into the captaincy.
The depth chart at the front row is a concern, but similar conversations were had a few years ago about other positions.
3 years out from the next RWC, I think they are building well.

 

[jordiev]

Well, I think Santi Chocobares is on that level, but it's true he's just the 1. Fighting with Ireland to the death without him is really something
you mean the sanchification of rugby

Oh of course, chocbares is class and cinti is normally good (although cinti was terrible yesterday), but need a few more in their so it is overly reliant on one man and a good 9 and that squad looks class.

 

[Horacito]

Oh of course, chocbares is class and cinti is normally good (although cinti was terrible yesterday), but need a few more in their so it is overly reliant on one man and a good 9 and that squad looks class.

to be frank, we need to sack bertranou

I think Garcia looks fine but he needs more time probably

I don't think we have any centers comin thru

 

[Yulia]

For the neutral, it was an entertaining game with shifts in momentum and the outcome still in the balance until the end.
The panic & bed wetting about Ireland's decline is excessive. Our young FH's are not yet running the show, but they are being benchmarked against Sexton in his prime. Likewise, Doris is still growing into the captaincy.
The depth chart at the front row is a concern, but similar conversations were had a few years ago about other positions.
3 years out from the next RWC, I think they are building well.

I agree in general (just didn't find the second half that entertaining,and I was sure in Ireland's win).

The panic & bed wetting about Ireland's decline is excessive.

 

[jordiev]

to be frank, we need to sack bertranou

I think Garcia looks fine but he needs more time probably

I don't think we have any centers comin thru

Couldn't agree more, he seemed decent at getting the ball out quick but from watching him in domestic rugby he is just not good enough. Garcia looked decent and really like that more Argentinians are going to Italy as a route into professional European rugby easy cultural transition etc…

You could always move mallia to centre but then he is such class at FB and seems to play his best stuff there might risk that, but their seems to me to be more class back 3 options. Wonder if future 7's converts like moneta could be pushed more into 12/13 but who knows

 

[miccloarch]

Ireland are not in decline this Argentina team is firmly a top four global side at the moment, beating both New Zealand and South Africa and coming very close to beating Ireland, I felt they probably had that game. Ireland did not lose to the Argentina of a few years ago this side is a different beast, did you guys notice how they attacked the rucks in packs! How they guarded it showed me their mentality is finally that of an elite rugby team

Agreed with everything though you may have meant to say Argentina are a top 5 team.

France were hit and miss in the 6N this year but they're a different animal with Dupont. And remember they sent their B/C team to South America in July and still drew the Argentina series 1-1.

This performance from Argentina sets it up nicely for next week though.