Ireland tour to Japan + USA

[big ginger 8]

Away with the Lions:
Stander
O'Mahony
Henderson
Best
Payne
McGrath
Furlong
Murray
Sexton
Henshaw
O'Brien

Playing Abroad:
Madigan
Donncha Ryan
Moore

Non exhaustive list obviously, just the guys who would have been closest. I suppose there is every possibility or Ryan going especially with him as a mentor and a view to keeping match fit in case of Lions call up but I'm just going based on what has been the standard procedure.

Injured:
Dillane
Murphy

Just the ones I can find sources saying or out. If there's anyone else I've overlooked let me know. Obviously the Likes of Heaslip and the Kearney bros. remain to be seen.

Expected Squad:

Props: Healy, Kilcoyne, Cronin, Bealham, Ryan, Bent (would put Buckley ahead of Cronin but Schmidt has given no indication to thinking Buckley is international quality. Bent is there because I can't think of anyone else, he covers both sides and has actually been excellent this year.)

Hookers: Cronin, Scannell, Strauss (nothing out of the ordinary here I think)

Locks: Toner, Treadwell, Roux, Moloney, J. Ryan (Ryan is my bolter but have heard rumours about it and he would be in the apprentice role ala Jodie Barrett. Holland and D. Ryan probably have every chance. I just feel we might go younger, but I'm probably wrong.)

Backrow: Heaslip (c), Conan, Leavy, VDF, O'Donoghue (a lot of Leinster but hardly undeserved and Munster's best are with the Lions. There's a chance Heaslip won't make it but word is he'll play against Glasgow. Schmidt seems to prefer JO'D to TO'D)

Scrumhalves: Marmion, McGrath (possibility of bringing another one but I don't see much point)

Outhalves: Jackson, Carberry, R. Byrne (Byrne coming along in case Carberry has to cover elsewhere)

Centres: Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall, Olding/McCloskey

Back three: R. Kearney, A. Byrne, Sweetman, Trimble, Conway, Earls (I know people want sweeping change here, I'd say it's unlikely. Still the two most deserving guys will probably get time. TO'H could and probably should go but I'm doubtful)


Of course it is likely that one way or another injury will have an impact on this squad actually happening whether it be injury to players in it or to Lions players resulting in call ups. Either way I'm in the middle of exams so why wouldn't I type this all up.

My team for the first test:
1. Healy
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Roux
5. Toner
6. Leavy
7. VDF
8. Heaslip (C)
9. Marmion
10. Jackson
11. Earls
12. Scannell
13. Ringrose
14. Byrne
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Ryan
19. Treadwell
20. Conan
21. McGrath
22. Carberry
23. Sweetman

 

[munstermuffin]

Can't see a squad that big going to be fair.

5 props. Maybe 6.
Kilcoyne
Healy
Ryan
Bealham
Bent
6th could be anyone.

Scannell Cronin and Tracy I'd guess.

Locks.
Toner
Holland
Treadwell
Maybe D Ryan if on standby for Lions otherwise I think Moloney

6 backrows I'd guess.
Heaslip due to Lions
Leavy
Van Der Flier
O'Donoghue
Conan
Oliver or Sean O'Brien

2 9s. Marmion and McGrath

10s will be Carbery and Jackson.

Scannell Ringrose Farrell Marshall Olding (3rd 10)

Earls Zebo Sweetnam Conway Byrne TOH.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sweet man

 

[big ginger 8]

My squad has 34 players yours has 33. I guess the one extra player makes it too big.

- - - Updated - - -

Sweet man

It must be so.

 

[munstermuffin]

My squad has 34 players yours has 33. I guess the one extra player makes it too big.

- - - Updated - - -



It must be so.

Even mine is too big. I can see 28 players max going.
Think it will be same as previous Lions tour years.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

It'll be a relatively small, lean squad I'd say with plenty of rotation.

Looseheads: Healy, Kilcoyne
Hookers: Scannell, Cronin, Tracy
Tightheads: Ryan, Bealham, Bent
Second Rows: Toner, Holland, Roux, Treadwell
Backrows: Heaslip (c), Leavy, van der Flier, Conan, Ruddock (non-Leinster players need not apply)
Scrum Halves: Marmion, McGrath
Flyhalves: Jackson, Carbery
Centres: Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall, Olding
Back Three: Kearney, Zebo, Earls, O'Halloran, Sweetnam

You could argue quite reasonably that nothing will be learned by picking Heaslip, Healy, Kearney or Earls but all four will harbour hopes of Lions call ups so will stick around for the first two tests anyway. Donnacha Ryan misses out due to being out of the IRFU system just like Ian Madigan missed out on initial selection for the SA tour last summer.

 

[Groundhog]

Stockdale needs to be brought along too I reckon. Can understand bringing a good few senior guys to see how the younger players do among them, but we have plenty of young guys who are very experienced for their age. Would leave the likes of Kearney and Holland who maybe don't have a long term future with the side home. O'Halloran should be given all the gametime he can get, and I'd maybe have Sean O'Brien jr in for Holland. Toner and Roux to provide the experience.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Stockdale needs to be brought along too I reckon. Can understand bringing a good few senior guys to see how the younger players do among them, but we have plenty of young guys who are very experienced for their age. Would leave the likes of Kearney and Holland who maybe don't have a long term future with the side home. O'Halloran should be given all the gametime he can get, and I'd maybe have Sean O'Brien jr in for Holland. Toner and Roux to provide the experience.

I agree with this but do you see it happening?

Would love to see the likes of Jacob Stockdale, Adam Byrne, Ross Byrne, Peter Dooley, Ross Molony, Jack O'Donoghue and John Cooney tour.

 

[munstermuffin]

It'll be a relatively small, lean squad I'd say with plenty of rotation.

Looseheads: Healy, Kilcoyne
Hookers: Scannell, Cronin, Tracy
Tightheads: Ryan, Bealham, Bent
Second Rows: Toner, Holland, Roux, Treadwell
Backrows: Heaslip (c), Leavy, van der Flier, Conan, Ruddock (non-Leinster players need not apply)
Scrum Halves: Marmion, McGrath
Flyhalves: Jackson, Carbery
Centres: Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall, Olding
Back Three: Kearney, Zebo, Earls, O'Halloran, Sweetnam

You could argue quite reasonably that nothing will be learned by picking Heaslip, Healy, Kearney or Earls but all four will harbour hopes of Lions call ups so will stick around for the first two tests anyway. Donnacha Ryan misses out due to being out of the IRFU system just like Ian Madigan missed out on initial selection for the SA tour last summer.

Issue I'd say on guys like Heaslip are that as you say they need to stay sharp so will go. Ryan your correct on.
On Backrow I think Jack O'Donoghue is well ahead of Ruddock in Schmidts thinking. He's benefiting from playing in the big games and being in camp. Also I think Ruddock is victim of pool of back rows. He's played well last few games but has been outshone by Leavy or VDF depending on which game. Jack hasn't been superb BUT is better positioned and don't think Ruddock has done enough to move him. It's a pity as Ruddock is good enough but will never get there being 7th choice when everyone is fit.
Ryan hasn't signed for Racing yet. If he stays he tours if it gets finalised he's omitted.
On centres. Chris Farrell was partly brought back by Schmidt. He may tour.
I think Kearney is nowhere near Lions contention and has too many injuries. I think A Byrne deserves to go. Especially as Zebo and O'Halloran are FBs and again Conway will go too I feel.

 

[profitius]

I haven't seen much of Ulster for a few months. I see Treadwell being talked about a bit. Think he'll make it? We're short of locks. I'd say if James Ryan wasn't injured he could have been a bolter.

 

[big ginger 8]

Looks like the squad will be announced tomorrow.

There is also growing rumours about the inclusion of Ryan. Which seem to be supported by him playing for a Munster challege side at the weekend against the Irish 20s. Why go to such lengths to get gametime if his season is done?

 

[munstermuffin]

Sweetnam and Adam Byrne expected to miss out. James Ryan and Andrew Porter along with Treadwell and Stockdale are set to tour.

In 1 way I am glad Schmidt is giving youth a shot. I don't agree with his selections but that's just an opinion. On James Ryan, he's a suoerb player but don't think a guy who has done nothing for Leinster senior team and is only working back after an injury should be rocketed in.

Hopefully Andrew Porter goes well too and presume he continues his journey to tighthead.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ireland Squad Summer Tour 2017 - USA & Japan

Forwards
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 6 caps
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 1 cap
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 67 caps
Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers)*
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 17 caps
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12 caps
Jack O'Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster) 1 cap

Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)*
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 13 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)*
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 6 caps
Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 4 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 47 caps
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Kieran Treadwell (Ballymena/Ulster)*
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps

Backs
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 3 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 1 cap
John Cooney (Connacht)*
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 59 caps
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 23 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 13 caps
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster) 9 caps
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 1 cap
Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3 caps
Rory O'Loughlin (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster)*
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 33 caps

*Denotes uncapped

Interesting stuff, I think Ryan and Porter are hugely positive calls who will offer Irish rugby a lot more than guys like Holland or Bent who are currently better players. O'Loughlin and Stockdale ahead of Byrne and Sweetnam will get a lot of people talking, delighted for RO'L who I believe has the most potential to be the devastating winger that we need out of all the young wings but Stockdale ahead of Sweetnam seems a bit off to me, Schmidt obviously seeing something that I don't.

 

[munstermuffin]

Can't argue with it really. Like Alpha said maybe Sweetnam should be there but he's still finding feet after injury and he will get his chance.
For once it's hard to argue that any guy doesn't deserve a spot. James Ryan I think should've proved himself in a Pro 12 game at least but well I understand where they are thinking and well it's fair enough. Sean Cronin is a surprise omission. I know he's had injury issues but he's not a starter for Ireland and I thought would've wanted chance to try challenge. (Although I think Scannell will be starter come Nov)

 

[munstermuffin]

FWIW
I'd like to see

1. Healy
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Treadwell
5. Toner (I'd rather Ryan or Ruddock) - Ruddock is named as a lock I see
6. Leavy
7. Van Der Flier
8. Conan
9. Marmion
10. Jackson
11. Earls
12. Scannell
13. Ringrose
14. Conway
15. Zebo

16. Tracy
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Ruddock
20. Jack O'Donoghue
21. Cooney
22. Carbery
23. O'Loughlin

PS - Is Trimble totally omitted. Thought it was between him and Ruddock to captain.

 

[profitius]

Good squad and it rightfully has one eye on the world cup.

Interesting to see who didn't make it (besides the lions and Heaslip, Rob Kearney). No McCloskey, Gilroy, Sweetnam, A Byrne, Molony etc.

 

[munstermuffin]

Wait. Rob was available and wasn't selected according to Schmidt. This is very VERY progressive.

He left out Byrne, Sweetnam, Gilroy etc but equally he has named lads in form. Andrew Conway 100% deserves his spot and all those back 3 guys going will be around in 2019 so they are deserving of spot.
Same at 12 Rory Scannell deserves to be in ahead of McCloskey.

Last guy to play for Ireland before Province was BOD. Wonder will James Ryan have same rapid rise.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

No McCloskey, Gilroy, Sweetnam, A Byrne, Molony etc.

This is significant, especially when you consider those taken ahead of them (Scannell, Stockdale, O'Loughlin, Ryan) are younger players.

Delighted for Dave Heffernan, Rory O'Loughlin and John Cooney especially as neither inclusions were flagged. Who would have thought at the start of the season that any of those players would be in contention for international honours.

James Ryan and Andrew Porter are very progressive calls. Billy Holland and Michael Bent would have been the safe picks but the former Ireland u20 stars have massive potential. Had they not been called up now, it could have been after the 2019 World Cup before they appeared on the scene.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Cronin's neck is at him and Kearney hasn't played in a couple months, I wouldn't mark this as the end of their international careers. Trimble, Gilroy and McFadden on the other hand...

 

[Conal]

Been a few years since i've been on this!

Just wanting some other provinces take on Gilroy? If i was Gilroy i'd feel a tad hard done by the last season or two i'd have expected him to make the squad at least for this.

However from seeing Treadwell up close a few times this year, he could be a hell of a talent for Ireland at lock horse of a boy