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Ireland Squad Announced For Guinness Series

Can confirm Horan is out for 6 weeks and will visit specialist in Dublin tomorrow.
Flannery meeting same specialist Paul O'Connell had from Liverpool also to determine his problem.

On the Connacht thing, I agree Carr in super form but like it isn't often Heineken Cup teams put strongest team out against Connacht.
But my point is on Horgan/Carr battle is simply that both are playing relatively well so would you take chance on a fella who is performing well in Heineken Cup or in Amlin.
I'm not saying Carr isn't deserving but if I look at the backs selected in Irish squad I feel they are all in pretty good form. And they have the benefit of playing at a higher level.
 
I haven't seen much of Horgan recently. But Carr's on fire and has been for a season and a half, while Horgan's looked like he's only fit for the glue factory at times.

Carr could be a massive success at international level; I think Kidney's made it clear with this selection that he's not in his plans for the World Cup. That's better news for non-Irish than Irish is you ask me. If I was Carr, I'd be tempted to ask my agent to start asking around the Premiership and Top 14.
 
I know we can say Carr is on fire but he's behind players that are playing well but at higher level. I'd say something if any back was picked despite playing poorly but they're all actually playing well
 
Magners is Magners. I know teams often send weaker teams to Connacht, but you can only play whats in front of you and Carr's played his share of big boys. The fact a winger's getting so many tries for the whipping boys is in itself a massive clue to his ability.

Whats more, if Muldoon can get ahead of the competition at back-row - just as competitive a spot - while playing for Connacht, I don't think Kidney can be said to be using this argument. The answer is for some reason Kidney does not rate Carr.

And to answer the question about Irish players playing well in the Prem - not really. Steenson's obviously playing and has a metronome boot. The Quins players aren't doing too great. Staunton's out injured iirc. I would point at Newcastle though, two Irish props. Kieran Brookes in particular has impressed me whenever I've seen him, only 20, played all three front row positions for the Falcons this year and done it well. Plus, cap him now, or we English will probably fast-track him for the Saxons. I think the Irish management would have to be slightly stupid to let us have him when you're so short at prop.
 
Magners is Magners. I know teams often send weaker teams to Connacht, but you can only play whats in front of you and Carr's played his share of big boys. The fact a winger's getting so many tries for the whipping boys is in itself a massive clue to his ability.

Whats more, if Muldoon can get ahead of the competition at back-row - just as competitive a spot - while playing for Connacht, I don't think Kidney can be said to be using this argument. The answer is for some reason Kidney does not rate Carr.

And to answer the question about Irish players playing well in the Prem - not really. Steenson's obviously playing and has a metronome boot. The Quins players aren't doing too great. Staunton's out injured iirc. I would point at Newcastle though, two Irish props. Kieran Brookes in particular has impressed me whenever I've seen him, only 20, played all three front row positions for the Falcons this year and done it well. Plus, cap him now, or we English will probably fast-track him for the Saxons. I think the Irish management would have to be slightly stupid to let us have him when you're so short at prop.

He was playing underage for Ireland but choose to play U20's with England. You're right we could do will some props although the prop crisis of last season has eased. Alot of that was because there was no scrum coaches.
 
Yup, still eligble for either at full international level.

As for prop crisis... we shall see. Buckley learning how to scrummage and Ross learning how to run is a massive boon, but I'm still going to wait the year out before declaring it stuck. Leinster and Ulster both have plenty of promising young fatties too, but reverse poaching Brookes could make a lot of sense for Munster. Don't feel obliged to though, he'll do very nicely in the Red Rose thankyou!
 
Cian Healy is much maligned in Munster for his supposed Hollywood lifetyle but he's just turned 23, has over 70 first class games for Leinster and Ireland, has started in and won a Heineken Cup final and has started internationals against nearly all the major nations. Last season he struggled big time in the scrum against Clermont, Toulouse and for Ireland but for the most part he's done a decent job and has taken his scrummaging up a notch this season under Greg Feek's guidance. He's developing into a star.

Tom Court doesn't offer much in the loose but he's a fantastic scrummager who's improving all the time.

Marcus Horan can still do a job but he's nothing to write home about. Brett Wilkinson is in the same category.

Paddy McAllister is a 21 year old Ulster loosehead who looks like he could be a gem. I think he's making his 1st start this weekend.

Jack O'Connell tore it up for Ireland u20s last season.

Dave Ryan and Darragh Hurley look like very good players for Munster but need game time.

At loosehead at least, Ireland should have plenty of depth in a couple of years but I wouldn't complain one bit if Kieran Brookes changed his mind again.

As for tighthead, Buckley and Ross can carry the can for 3 more years by which point Jamie Hagan and possibly Stewart Maguire may be ready to step up. Hagan could be capped before the World Cup.
 
This is the Irish Indo's take on the prop situation. I tend to agree with it although fawning at John Hayes' achievements is a little nauseating:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...to-put-bull-back-in-kidney-court-2390357.html

WHEN you are counting the time to your 40th birthday in months rather years and you work and pal around with blokes in their 20s, an element of 'old man' slagging is inevitable.
They hush when 'Reeling In The Years' comes on, so you can "remember the old days properly," buy you packets of Werther's Originals and pull out chairs so you "can take the weight off".
And then there are the questions. These range from "is it true you met Eve on the rebound after Adam kicked her out?" to "were you not ashamed leaving the tent to take a leak when Brian Boru was killed?"
All affectionate ribbing, of course -- or so you tell yourself late at night as you wipe away the tears while simultaneously trying to count your beard's grey hairs. You try the "you won't be so smart in 10 years, boy" retort, but it falls flat on the realisation that, by then, satisfaction will be consumed by sagging breasts and depressing thoughts of hitting 50.
The sad fact is, the irreversible nature of the ageing process does not allow comebacks.
John Hayes turns 37 in a couple of weeks and is, by some distance, the oldest member of Ireland's 34-man panel for the November internationals announced last Tuesday. It is impossible to speak highly enough of the Cappamore man's contribution to Irish rugby since he broke through with Shannon in the mid-to-late 1990s.
Contribution
The statistics tell part of the story -- 102 caps for Ireland (the first player to break 100), 183 appearances for Munster, one Grand Slam, four Triple Crowns, two Heineken Cups and two Lions tours, and that's before you add in his contribution to Shannon's bulging trophy cabinet.
But, what even those remarkable stats fail to convey is the extent to which Hayes was the most indispensable player in Irish rugby for the bones of 10 years, bar none. The 'Holy Trinity' of Brian O'Driscoll, Ronan O'Gara and Paul O'Connell will dominate reviews in years to come, but Hayes was the foundation stone for province and country.
Hayes has been written off repeatedly, primarily for his scrummaging, but you do not amass the trophies Munster and Ireland have on Hayes' watch if you cannot lock the scrum. Furthermore, in the inglorious areas of mauling, rucking, fringe defence and line-outs, Hayes' work rate is beyond reproach.
Ask any second-row and they will tell you about the mutual contract of scrummaging support in return for elevation at line-out time. This is not just grunt-work, it requires intelligence (not always the most readily accessible quality in props), movement and adaptability.
Jumpers and hookers garner all the plaudits when it comes to line-out efficiency, but Hayes has been the key component, justifiably forging a reputation as the best lifter in world rugby.
When you take all the above into consideration, arguing that Hayes should not have been in the Ireland squad may seem disingenuous. Declan Kidney's respect and loyalty towards 'The Bull' dates back to bringing him through with Munster in the late 1990s. Hayes has been contracted until after the Word Cup, when he will be nearing his 38th birthday and, given the arduous nature of this November series, it seems that familiarity and experience sealed the selection deal (ditto Shane Horgan's inclusion ahead of Fionn Carr).
Reality
However, professional rugby provides little room for sentiment and the reality is that the indispensability tag no longer applies. Tony Buckley is finally fulfilling the promise that has existed since his early socks-rolled-down, 'new John Hayes' days with Shannon and is indisputably Ireland's first-choice tight-head, while Leinster have finally cottoned on to Mike Ross' abilities (although only after the departure of CJ van der Linde and injury to Stan Wright).
Neither is the finished article but, with game time, Buckley's scrummaging and Ross' loose play have both come on hugely, while Tom Court, second only to Ross as the country's foremost scrummager, has become a good option on both sides.
Then you have Jamie Hagan. The Connacht No 3 did not make the squad, but has proven he has the attitude and ability, in loose play and in the tight , worthy of international recognition. Plus, at 23, Hagan can be a force at the World Cup while Hayes is now a target in defence and scrum.
Ireland will take five props to the World Cup and they should be Cian Healy, Buckley, Court, Ross and Hagan. That may appear harsh on the injured Marcus Horan and, particularly, Hayes, given what they have done for Irish rugby.
However, less than 12 months out from a competition where Ireland have consistently failed to produce, it is hard to escape the conclusion that last Tuesday was the time to reel in the years.
- Hugh Farrelly
 
Just saw McAllister play for Ulster and his scrummaging was brilliant. He dominated the scrum even though he was against international props.
 
Hayes destroyed the 2 italian looseheads he was against! Both were binned before half time!?!
 
imagie if in the AI Hayes just owned every scrum. (then again imagine if I had £1,000,000) you never know.
 
Hayes did excellent tonight but in saying that I was disappointed with Treviso scrum as it was poor
 
Luke Fitzgerald and Brett Wilkinson have been called up

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2010/1025/1224281993963.html

Luke Fitzgerald has been drafted into the Ireland squad for the forthcoming autumn internationals after shaking off the hip and rib injuries that had threatened the Leinster flyer's availability. Fitzgerald was not considered for selection when Declan Kidney named his 34-man squad last week as the Irish medical team waited to ascertain how serious his injuries were.

As it transpired, the knock sustained against Saracens 10 days ago left Fitzgerald with some bruising but no lasting damage. He returned to training with Leinster at the end of last week, although he wasn't risked in the Magners League against Connacht, and the 23-year-old has been passed fit to join up with the rest of the squad.

Brett Wilkinson has also joined up with the panel at their Limerick base to provide extra cover for the injured Marcus Horan. When Horan withdrew from the squad after suffering a broken bone in his hand last week, the Irish management had indicated they would not be calling up a replacement.

But with tests against South Africa, Samon, New Zealand and Argentina bound to take their toll, a decision was taken over the weekend to bring in the Connacht loosehead.
 
Fitzgerald was always going to figure at some stage. I wouldn't mind seeing him at 12 for the series with D'arcy on the bench and Earls on the wing.

Will Wilkinson see much gametime? Doubtful. He'll be third choice LH behind Court and Healy however I'd expect to see him figure from the bench in either the Samoa or Argentina games. I got the impression from the Summer tour that Kidney doesn't particularly like calling replacements up unless he plans to use them.
 
Went to see them in UL today doing a bit. Only did a small bit of contact but all players seemed eager to impress.
 
Greg Feek has been added to the Irish management team as scrum coach for the Guinness Series. He has been working at Leinster since the start of the season and hopeully he can develop the whole packs and indivuals scrummaging ability.
 
Must admit though if we fail to beat the All Blacks this time then it will be a massive chance lost because we are in our own yard and our players are on form.
It's no disrespect to the All Blacks either just that this is a massive chance for us on Nov 20
 
Must admit though if we fail to beat the All Blacks this time then it will be a massive chance lost because we are in our own yard and our players are on form.
It's no disrespect to the All Blacks either just that this is a massive chance for us on Nov 20

did you see the tri nations!!!
 
Yeah but the ABs are on form as well, even by their own standards. I fancy Ireland to beat SA but I'd be pretty surprised if they beat New Zealand
 
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