Ireland Squad Announced For Guinness Series

[munstermuffin]

How can you say Carr more deserving than Johne Murphy. Murphy is a perfect age, versatile, playing a higher standard, playing well and deserves his spot.
Also I not a big fan of Toner but how could you say he or Micko, both of whom are playing well, should have been omitted for Tuohy who is only back from injury and is fighting to make Ulster team.
And personally it hard to judge Connacht player because the gap between Amlin and Heineken cup is massive. You can look Worldclass in amlin and that same performance could be mediocre in H'Cup

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's a bit unfair, muffin. You can only play what's in front of you. If BOD decided to take a year out from Leinster and play for Blackrock, would you say he shouldn't be in the Ireland squad?
Carr is making the breaks, scoring the tries and just generally playing well. He shouldn't be penalised for playing for Connacht (of course all of this is hypothetical, I've no idea why he wasn't picked, just that him playing in the Amlin is a pretty naff excuse)

 

[munstermuffin]

I just defending selection of Johne Murphy and well i'm just been honest as in if BOD did play a year with Blackrock in AIL he'd be scoring tries for fun. It simply like saying in soccer teams Olyy for a team near you I presume Stockport if a player there was scoring 40 goals a season then why not call him up to English team.
I basically saying Carr is a good player but until he gets to Munster or Leinster he will always only have a slim shot of making Irish team. Because yes you can only play what is in front of you but at International level you'll always be against the best on offer from the country

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not actually from near Sale , nearer to Birmingham, but I get your point.
It's a shame really for Carr, didn't he start out at Leinster but then move?
Even if he did move to a 'better' province he'd not be guaranteed a spot because of the strength of his opposition for the shirt. So it'd be either play every week, but not on the same level, or warm the bench at the next step up.

 

[MunsterMan]

You can't critisize Kidney for not picking form players and say he should have picked Murphy over Duffy at the same time. Duffy has been excellent over the last 18 months, deserves a shot. At the same time wouldn't surprise me to see Murphy called up as soon as the international window opens

John Hayes and Shane Horgan ahead of Carr and Hagen is dissapointing at the same time. I Can see why Keatley isn't picked.

 

[munstermuffin]

I know it is a gamble but it's what has to be done because in fairness there not alot of chances to test players out

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads can we close John Hayes issue as I've said he's going to World Cup. Not saying it a correct call just it fact

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Then no, we can't close the John Hayes issue. If he doesn't deserve to be in the squad, he shouldn't have been named. Hayes' form has been in consistent decline since the 2009 Lions tour. I don't see how a year benching for Munster will make him a viable option. All Hayes has going for him is experience at this stage. Put it this way, if both Hayes and Jamie Hagan were uncapped 23 year olds, who would you pick on current form?

 

[munstermuffin]

I agree with you Snoop and even in Munster sessions it is noticable his strength which is a major plus for him in terms of lifting has declined too.
But he was considering retirement last year and Kidney persuaded him to stay on. I just meant can we close it because the scenario is known and I doubt anything will change unless Hayes has change of mind

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I don't doubt that Hayes is pencilled in for the 2011 World Cup, I'm questioning the wisdom of it (and accept that you are too). From my perspective, I'd like to see Ireland strive to get to the same level in the sport as New Zealand- it's not going to happen but it's worth pushing towards achieving their levels of excellence (World Cups apart!). I very much doubt that New Zealand would pick a 36 year old prop when there's a 23 year old playing significantly better rugby. Sentimentality has no place in top level sport and Ireland are making a sentimental decision by picking Hayes ahead of Hagan. Hayes had a great career but his best days are in the past.

On a side note, I understand not picking Hagan since he'd be at best 3rd choice tighthead and wouldn't see any game time. He'll learn more playing for Connacht than he will holding tackle bags for Ireland.

 

[Peat]

Quite clearly this squad isn't about trying out new options. Its about Kidney preparing his squad for the WC.

As an Ulster fan, there's no Ulster who should be there that isn't there. You could argue for them sticking one of the Ulster locks in instead of Ryan, but not that convincingly. Henry's maybe a tad unfortunate but boobed up 8 on the summer tour.

The only player who's not there who absolutely should be is Fionn Carr. He is ripping up the Magners League and I would say is clearly the fastest player available to Ireland. He is bang in form, has been for the last season or so and would offer something different. He may not be that vesatile, but since every other Irish wing is it doesn't matter that much. You could drop Horgan for him quite easily, Horgan has enough experience to slot straight back in if required.

Similalry, I'd have let Hayes have the international window off completely and tell him to get himself down the gym.

 

[sexton4ireland]

I very much doubt that New Zealand would pick a 36 year old prop when there's a 23 year old playing significantly better rugby. Sentimentality has no place in top level sport and Ireland are making a sentimental decision by picking Hayes ahead of Hagan.QUOTE]
Very much agreed, it's the classic failure of Irish team selections. Hagan, Ross and Buckley all need international time and it looks like hagans lost out.
I think while Murphy has been playing well Carr has been exceptional even if on a lower level. If we can take magners league into account hes been one of the form wingers if not the form winger for quite some time, going well into last season, performing against the same teams the other provinces play.
On the Micko or toner point i said it would have been "nice to see him included" as he looks a real prospect for a full strength matchday 22. I belive in World Cup preperation! Youd hope he would be among the 4 second rows for the squad for the serious stuff as toner still is very much a work in progress and mick, despite an excellent performance in toulon is unlikely to really pose a threat

 

[coonor]

I think that Carr is very unlucy but I agree he is in a position that is so competetive that he is just not versitile enough for a place in the squad. I think he would benefit more from playing consistent rugby for the Irish wolfhounds as to with Keatley. Horgan is on the squad to add experience to the back 3 and he is playing much better than last year, but i cant help feel carr would have benefitted from it more than Horgan. I think Duffy has earned his place over the last year and a half of solid rugby. I think he deserves to be given a chance by Ireland. Hagen deffinatly should be disapointed because we need all the young good props in Ireland to get top level game experience. Hayes should have stopped afterthe lions 2009 tour he owes ireland nothing and is just holding back the young talent that doesn't show through.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Carr should be in.

That is all I have to say on this matter.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just off topic the Irish lads in premiership. Not just murphy and casey but Exeter boys etc. Are any of them shown glimpses of something special

 

[GalwayCanuck5]

Not sure about the Exeter lads, I heard that Gareth Steenson has been fairly decent with the boot though. Is he in the Wolfhounds squad? Or has it been announced?

 

[Feicarsinn]

He can kick, but that's about it. He's like an inferior O'Gara in many ways. Not a player I want around the squad to be honest.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

I just defending selection of Johne Murphy and well i'm just been honest as in if BOD did play a year with Blackrock in AIL he'd be scoring tries for fun. It simply like saying in soccer teams Olyy for a team near you I presume Stockport if a player there was scoring 40 goals a season then why not call him up to English team.
I basically saying Carr is a good player but until he gets to Munster or Leinster he will always only have a slim shot of making Irish team. Because yes you can only play what is in front of you but at International level you'll always be against the best on offer from the country

I don't agree with that analogy. Connacht may be a pretty crap team but they're playing in the same league as Leinster and Munster and several other Heineken Cup teams and weak in/weak out Carr still scores tries against these teams. Carr would be more like Darren Bent in Sunderland. I think he definitely deserves to be in the squad ahead of Horgan anyway. Not sure about whether he's better than Murphy or not.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I was thinking about a Carr/Horgan switch,
Horgan has nothing to prove on the international stage, he's shown he can perform there (minus his poor AIs last year )
Now would be the perfect chance to try out a new guy before the WC, and if it doesn't work out, recall Horgan for the 6N/WC.
Unless they're making sure Horgans still got it, then testing out Carr in the 6N?

 

[coonor]

I hear Marcus Horan my be out for 6 weeks with a broken bone in the wrist could be a chance for Hagan.