Ireland Squad 2017/18

[munstermuffin]

Looks like we're playing Italy in Chicago before the Autumn test window. Good extra opportunity to play the likes of Carbery and Larmour against tier 1 and a half opposition. It also means that we'll break the tier 1 consecutive winning test match record when we beat NZ a couple weeks later.

Depends on Italy agreeing too which is rumoured to be a bit of issue financially but no doubt a very minor detail easily fixed

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Playing Italy in November is perhaps a case of test match overkill. If it makes the IRFU money and gives inexperienced test level players more game time, it'll be worthwhile.

 

[Leinster Fan]

It's a good move I think, there aren't many opportunities between now and Japan to work on our depth and integrate new options into the team. Carbery and Larmour are the future and could be brilliant players by 2019, but it's all for nothing if they don't have the international game time to trust them. Same goes for Beirne, he's going to be great but in reality we're going to have to integrate him into the team very quickly for him to be at his best for the WC.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Could it be of benefit to Ireland to name a 31 man squad for the November series? 4 games in 4 weeks replicates the World Cup schedule. Going with a 31 man squad replicates what'll happen in Japan a year later. It might be instructive to the coaching staff to see how they work within the confines of using just a 31 man squad even if some of the personnel change a year later.

 

[munstermuffin]

Issue there Snoop is they have to be aware of provinces too. I know in a RWC there is club games too but it's different at Nov when the games are that bit more meaningful and it's between rounds of European Rugby. The workloads are more trickier to manage

 

[dburns647]

Clear to see the positions where depth is needed or someone needs to make a throughout. The lack of young players with Test experience at hooker and loosehead should give any young player the motivation to step their games up considering the first choice and backup for each position (Best, Cronin, Healy and McGrath) will be the wrong side of 30 by the time the tournament ends.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Obviously the squad is in a good place given that we've just won a grand slam, but there are still a few areas of concern that need to be addressed. Our wide defence is still a work in progress although it did improve over the last few weeks. Depth at 2,9,10 and 15 is a concern, partly due to having less quality players in those positions and partly due to a lack of caps for backup players in those positions.

I think we should be leaving Sexton, Murray and Best at home for Australia while only starting Kearney in maybe one game. We need to learn how to do it without Sexton and Murray and to give Carbery and the backup scrumhalves game time v tier 1 teams. Chances are we'll need them to step up at some point either in Japan or somewhere else.

We should be targeting a series victory in Australia but the primary focus IMO should be squad development. I'd take a series defeat with a lot of work and progress done with the squad like SA 2016 over a 2-1 win where we start the same team that just won the GS. A clean sweep would set up a crack at NZ/England's winning record which would be nice but it's not worth sacrificing development for.

Not taking Murray lets us take McGrath, Marmion and Cooney on the same tour in a scenario where they're fighting over actual game time against Tier 1 opposition as opposed to five minutes off the bench with the game won/lost or a start against a Tier 2 team. We'd be a lot more certain about where we stand with those three afterwards.

We also need to integrate Beirne into the team and get Ross Byrne and Max Deegan capped.

Best is probably planning to retire after the world cup but for him to make it there he needs to play as little rugby as possible in the intermediate period. We need to get other players experience in the position and it'll be no harm for someone else to take on the responsibility of captain for the tour.

Without further ado, a potential squad:

LH: Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne
Hooker: Scannell, Cronin, Herring
TH: Furlong, Porter, Bealham (Ryan/Moore valid options as well)
Lock: Beirne, Henderson, James Ryan, Toner, Dillane.
Backrow: POM (Probable tour captain), Leavy, Ruddock, Deegan, Conan, Stqander, Jordi Murphy.

SH: Cooney, McGrath, Marmion.
OH: Carbery, R Byrne, Keatley
Centre: Aki, Ringrose, Scannell, McCloskey, Tom Farrell (deserves a shot).
Back three: Larmour, Daly, A Byrne, R Kearney, Conway, Stockdale, Healy, Wooton. (There are more players here as well).

I threw in a few Connacht guys who would probably benefit from a few weeks of the Joe Show. Didn't really want to go with Keatley but every other option is either injured, on trial or in truly woeful form. If 40 players are too many Deegan, Dillane, McCloskey and a winger can easily be cut.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Squad for Aus now that the regular season is all but dust: (Going off the SA tour template regarding numbers)

Backs (14) -

Kearney
Conway
Earls
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Aki
Arnold
Larmour
Sexton
Carbery
Murray
McGrath
Cooney (I reckon Joe will go with Marmion)

Forwards (18) -

Healy
McGrath
Cronin
Best
Scannell
Furlong
Porter
Ryan
Henderson
Ryan
Toner
Beirne
Ehhhh... Roux, Treadwell, Dillane??
Stander
POM
Leavy
Murphy
Conan

If they're using this as a bit of RWC practice, endurance-wise, that's the squad they should take, if this is a development tour I'd add Ross Byrne, Kilcoyne, Jack O'Donoghue and maybe another wing, probably Ferg.

 

[AM_Bokke]

Squad for SA? This team will get spanked when Ireland tour SA.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Squad for SA? This team will get spanked when Ireland tour SA.

Australia, typo.

Did you start watching rugby after last Autumn?

 

[AM_Bokke]

Australia, typo.

Did you start watching rugby after last Autumn?

I was just kidding. Joke was that the team would be pretty old by the time Ireland tours SA again.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I was just kidding. Joke was that the team would be pretty old by the time Ireland tours SA again.

Get ya, sorry! I'm deep into study and barely functioning outside it right now!

 

[Leinster Fan]

Squad for Aus now that the regular season is all but dust: (Going off the SA tour template regarding numbers)

Backs (14) -

Kearney
Conway
Earls
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Aki
Arnold
Larmour
Sexton
Carbery
Murray
McGrath
Cooney (I reckon Joe will go with Marmion)

Forwards (18) -

Healy
McGrath
Cronin
Best
Scannell
Furlong
Porter
Ryan
Henderson
Ryan
Toner
Beirne
Ehhhh... Roux, Treadwell, Dillane??
Stander
POM
Leavy
Murphy
Conan

If they're using this as a bit of RWC practice, endurance-wise, that's the squad they should take, if this is a development tour I'd add Ross Byrne, Kilcoyne, Jack O'Donoghue and maybe another wing, probably Ferg.

Yeah the squad will probably be something like this. A lot will depend on whether it's viewed as RWC prep or squad building. Don't see the harm in taking Ross Byrne and Kilcoyne either way, given that both have been in good form this year. Byrne should go just to get him up to speed with the setup given that we only have 2 international 10s that are good enough.

I'd have Bealham over Ryan but that's not something to get worked up about. Don't see the need for a fifth lock though. Getting Beirne in should be the priority there. Rhys Ruddock could make it if he finishes the season well. Deegan maybe if he can get any significant minutes for Leinster as well.

I like Marmion but I think Cooney and McGrath are much better 9s. Schmidt likes Marmion though so he'll probably go. As for Ferg I love him but he I can't see the point of taking him.

 

[Leinster Fan]

On Tadhg Beirne and where does he fit into the team. Ryan and Hendo are definitely the starting locks going forward. Toner on current form probably can't be left off the bench but whether that'll change going forward remains to be seen. That leaves 6 where he'll have POM looking over his shoulder. He could conceivably wear either the 19 or 20 shirt. He'll definitely get capped in Australia and will feature in November to some degree but what happens after that will be interesting. Great asset to the squad either way. Lock depth has really improved.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

POM v Beirne could turn into a bit of a battle if we want to use Beirne as a starter, a six who's a better carrier and jackal while not giving up much in the line out is bound to challenge POM. Otherwise I think the 19 jersey is his, Schmidt loves versatility on the bench so there's a big advantage over Dev there.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Yeah to be honest I'd be very worried if I were POM, other than leadership his best attributes are work at the ruck and the lineout. Beirne gets ridiculous turnovers and as a lock is obviously strong in the lineout and has far superior carrying and broken play abilities. Having said that though I don't think Beirne will walk in, POM did a lot of hard work that allowed others to shine in the 6N and Beirne will have show Joe he can replicate that kind of workrate as well before he'd be entrusted with a starting spot.

As I said I can't see him getting ahead of Ryan or Henderson in the second row especially after the Euro semi. I do think a lot of Irish people underrate Beirne primarily because of what happened with Copeland but I can't see him being any less than being a consistent presence on the bench in terms of national team involvement. (He'll easily start for Munster as well unlike Copeland.)

 

[profitius]

I don't see it as being an Eddie O'Sullivanesque 15 untouchables. I see it as a squad and how many players can realistically slot into a position without weakening it. The more players the better. I think we'll see rotation between Beirne and POM but I also think Beirne will play a bit in the second row even though Schmidt usually selected big men for that position.


I'd like to see Deegan brought to Australia instead of Conan. Conan looks great in patches but he needs more consistency. Caelan Doris and Deegan will put him under massive pressure.

 

[Jockstap]

POM v Beirne could turn into a bit of a battle if we want to use Beirne as a starter, a six who's a better carrier and jackal while not giving up much in the line out is bound to challenge POM. Otherwise I think the 19 jersey is his, Schmidt loves versatility on the bench so there's a big advantage over Dev there.

O'Mahony's there for the unseen work around the park, he's taken on Heaslips role(according to BOD), plus again his importance at the lineout and leadership he's not going anywhere, brilliant player.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads factor in Beirne is coming to play exclusively as a lock. So I'm guessing it'll be more as a lock or nowhere.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Lads factor in Beirne is coming to play exclusively as a lock. So I'm guessing it'll be more as a lock or nowhere.

In that case couldn't you just play Beirne at lock and Hendo at 6? Henderson's always seemed more of a 6 to me.