Ireland: 2014 Six Nations

[Peat]

To say what is at worst a 50:50 call is "provincial crap" is complete and utter bull****. If you don't remember Kidney was far worse. A poor DO'C, an old Hayes, Buckley, O'Leay, RO'G and others were stuck with for far too long instead of one tiny call for which will probably end up being a bench spot is not even in the same stratosphere.

Well yeah, he was pretty bad, which is why people are being sensitive to it. Plenty of Kidney's bad calls were 50-50s too.

I don't really want to get into an argument over it but from where I'm sitting it doesn't look great. Roll on the team - that should create plenty more *****ing! Then the match, thank gods.

 

[Groundhog]

To be honest I'd have Foley there in the squad. A bit surprised he hasn't earned a mention, he's very gritty. Really hope Toner doesn't start, and should Ryan get fit I would put him in the squad at the very least.
EDIT: I hope Zebo fights his way back into the squad, he does need to earn it and I wouldn't begrudge McFadden anything he's earned with good performances. Zebo was poor pre injury, and in hindsight a kick up the arse might bring him into form. That said Bowe too was fairly dire pre injury especially for Ireland so I can't justify him rejoining the squad.

 

[big ginger 8]

Well yeah, he was pretty bad, which is why people are being sensitive to it. Plenty of Kidney's bad calls were 50-50s too.

I don't really want to get into an argument over it but from where I'm sitting it doesn't look great. Roll on the team - that should create plenty more *****ing! Then the match, thank gods.

One call out of 34 isn't bad compared to the multitude in most squads he picked. I get not wanting to argue but I'm guessing you think some Ulster player is potentially hard done by and I'm just wondering who? Diack maybe? I'm pretty sure Fitzpatrick is still injured and there's only two tightheads anyway. I think this squad in general is pretty close to out best at the moment and I don't see anyone who'll be involved in the 23 who I can say is a bias call and will definitely do a worse job than a competitor. I just don't get the it doesn't look great comment. The only complaints I've seen is Zebo and from one Munster fan Kilcoyne. Considering the ususal greivances around Irish squad announcements it's not too bad.

I agree when the team is announced there will probably be joint *****ing from Ulster fans and Munstermuffin but I'm hoping if Trimble starts that'll sate you guys.

 

[Peat]

In fairness, there was usually only 2-3 in most Kidney squads if that. Lets not overegg the pudding here. For the most part picking the Irish squad and team is a job so simple a child of 7 could do it. There were only ever a few contentious calls at any one time. But persistently so.

And no, no Ulster player has been hard done by, although I'll bet high on cause for complaint when the team comes up. I think I'll save my complaining for after the game though. Mainly, I'll be content in the knowledge that Ulster's time is still coming.

 

[profitius]

After watching the A game I think 3 players stood out and done there chances very good. TOD, Madigan and Henshaw. TOD was everywhere and IMO is a better all round player than Henry. Defensively Henry is a superb tackler and choke tackler but you could argue TOD is more athletic, covers more ground and is faster to breakdowns etc. In attack he is more dangerous and Schmidt is an attack minded coach.

Henshaw put in a solid defensive performance and in the last few months has looked really good in the centre. He offers a phyisical presence that BOD does not anymore.

Madigan played well which might earn him a bench spot ahead of Jackson. Jackson would be more likely to start but Madigan is a better kicker and more flexible in terms of being able to slot into different positions.


TOD and Henshaw were taken off after 60 main which makes things interesting.

 

[Amiga500]

Lost the dressing room I hear.

 

[munstermuffin]

I guess I will leave it so as it is simply. Win Schmidt is bang on with call, loose and well pressure is on. Also to put it I guess his team selections will explain itself. I didn't expect ye to agree as it's Leinster. I'd probably be same if it were Munster.
But I will say it's said McFadden was tearing it up against Aus but that was long time ago?
And if It's a Leinster heavy team as expected - would that be true call based on form? Ulster have been form team in Ireland for last 2 years. Is that reflected right if it only Best and Henry in 23?
The same people here argued about Kidney for same thing and just don't want us down that path again.
Snoop I don't care where they from if they're good enough my point is I question the fact is selections based on that?

 

[ruggabee]

I'm pretty happy with that squad. For once a coach has gone and picked the best players we have available. The inclusion of McFadden is pretty questionable but it's just one call and hardly going to affect the performance of the team. If anything I'd say he went with McFadden because of his last performances in the green jersey and would be a safer bet due to his proven consistency. Zebo was seriously off the boil last time he played for Ireland and including him based on one HC game isn't enough in my eyes. He will need to show consistency before he can walk into the team. Weighing up the pros and cons between McFadden and Zebo really becomes a 50/50 split. It's ridiculous calling Schmidt's selection provincial bias. It's ONE player for another with the rest of his selection being pretty spot on. The only concern I have is our tendency to revert back to mediocre rugby after one excellent showing. I really hope this is a new chapter in Irish rugby and we see a level or increasing trend following the last AB game.

 

[Amiga500]

And if It's a Leinster heavy team as expected - would that be true call based on form? Ulster have been form team in Ireland for last 2 years. Is that reflected right if it only Best and Henry in 23?

I don't consider myself blinded by my tribal nordie bias... [unlike youse D4 jackeens and treaty county bogmen hoors :lol:]....

I could justify the following changes:
- Touhy in for McCarthy/Toner.

That is it.

I would play Henderson at 6 all day long - but, Mark Anscombe doesn't play him there all the time, neither does Joe Schmidt. Both of whom have forgot a helluva lot more about the game than I'll ever know.

Marshall isn't playing great up here in situation city, Gilroy is playing worse than the Dubs in the 90s and most of our other key players are from a land beyond the wave. Trimble is a good straight line runner and can provide excellence on occasion, but never conviction.

If Olding hadn't got injured, I would be strongly backing him ahead of Marshall or D'Arcy at 12. He was firmly on track to be the next big thing up here.

If SOB were fit, I would be calling for him at 6 and Chris Henry at 7. As most on here probably realise, I don't rate never-a-backward-step.... I heard about an ERC stat the other day that Jonny Wilkinson and Matt Giteau have made more tackles than the hard-staring-scrumhalf-bully.

If Gearóid Payne was good to go, he'd be my shout at 15. NOT 13. Play the man where he is world class, not merely very good.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I guess I will leave it so as it is simply. Win Schmidt is bang on with call, loose and well pressure is on. Also to put it I guess his team selections will explain itself. I didn't expect ye to agree as it's Leinster. I'd probably be same if it were Munster.
But I will say it's said McFadden was tearing it up against Aus but that was long time ago?
And if It's a Leinster heavy team as expected - would that be true call based on form? Ulster have been form team in Ireland for last 2 years. Is that reflected right if it only Best and Henry in 23?
The same people here argued about Kidney for same thing and just don't want us down that path again.
Snoop I don't care where they from if they're good enough my point is I question the fact is selections based on that?

You're right there. Schmidt's a fool for not picking Afoa, Muller, Pienaar and Payne.

 

[munstermuffin]

Feic that'd be like saying Joe hasn't got Nacewa to rescue him now!
But as I said its a results business and if it works out Joe has made the correct call. If not then he will shoulder blame. As I said I'm not being provincial bias as I for 1 am delighted Ruddock (who I've admitted I haven't been fan of) and Murphy along with Copeland and TOD are in squad.
Hell it's not even fact McFadden is in its just that Schmidt said players had to be match fit and then done this. If it was a case McFadden was playing even some bit lately fine it's more he hasn't been and rules changed for him.

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

I'm really pleased with the squad if Im honest. Bar, the McFaddenn call which is 50:50 and I we have to trust his judgement. Every other call he got right I think as it is the form people. Maybe Jones is a bit lucky but I feel we needed another specialised full back. He has got the right balance in the pack and fair play to him. I wouldn't pick Fitzpatrick even if he was fit, Moore is a younger much better option. Fair play to Schmidt, best squad that's been picked in Years.

how can we all ***** about provincial preference when he obviously will pick the best players. I for one don't think Kidney would of picked Copeland for example.

Lets all stop the *****ing and get behind Scmidt and trust his judgement. Lets see how they all do and then judge but let's just see what happens firstfirst

 

[munstermuffin]

To many players? what are you talking about i listed 23 players there cant decide on O donnell or whack jordi murphy out there why not sure hes been immense for Leinster he needs a shot.

Smidth will do great things to this team, infectious coach

Oh right didn't know there is 9 subs

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I guess I will leave it so as it is simply. Win Schmidt is bang on with call, loose and well pressure is on. Also to put it I guess his team selections will explain itself. I didn't expect ye to agree as it's Leinster. I'd probably be same if it were Munster.
But I will say it's said McFadden was tearing it up against Aus but that was long time ago?
And if It's a Leinster heavy team as expected - would that be true call based on form? Ulster have been form team in Ireland for last 2 years. Is that reflected right if it only Best and Henry in 23?
The same people here argued about Kidney for same thing and just don't want us down that path again.
Snoop I don't care where they from if they're good enough my point is I question the fact is selections based on that?

Trophy count from the last 2 years:
Ulster 0
Leinster 3 (4 if you include the B&I Cup

If you ask if selection is based on provincial allegiance, you're doing the coach a disservice.

 

[Groundhog]

I'm going to wait till the rugby has been played before I look either way. I really don't like seeing people assume that Schmidt will usher in an era of change for Irish rugby because he was a class provincial coach. Kidney built a Heineken Cup winning side at Munster and he was an abysmal national coach. Let's fire our guns in the air if we win, and also the lynching as well. If his selections work, they work. I'm more interested in the type of game he wants to play than the players he pick for his first few games.

 

[munstermuffin]

Trophy count from the last 2 years:
Ulster 0
Leinster 3 (4 if you include the B&I Cup

If you ask if selection is based on provincial allegiance, you're doing the coach a disservice.

Look it's like this - I'm coming back down again just want to know why is it McFadden is ok to come straight back yet for Zebo and Gilroy it's "after injury you have to prove fitness".
Why the different rule (regardless of form in Nov)?
If it's simply he doesn't like Zebos attitude, style, performances or any other reason why not just say or leave no reason? That's fair enough and Zebo isn't on central contract so it no big deal and as I said if he said Zebo had to work on any of the issues stated above everyone especially Munster fans would accept this.
Like as I said players like Moore or McGrath got 50/50 calls and that's fair as you can argue validly their cases and looking at squad I'll again say fair enough but just want to ask would you not say it double standard on that 1 call?
As you stated earlier his track record deserves respect and the benefit of doubt but why create that kinda issue?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm going to wait till the rugby has been played before I look either way. I really don't like seeing people assume that Schmidt will usher in an era of change for Irish rugby because he was a class provincial coach. Kidney built a Heineken Cup winning side at Munster and he was an abysmal national coach. Let's fire our guns in the air if we win, and also the lynching as well. If his selections work, they work. I'm more interested in the type of game he wants to play than the players he pick for his first few games.

NO! Schmidt is a great tactician and knows the game far more intricately than Kidney. I agree with your first point but Deccie and Schmidt are incomparable.

 

[profitius]

Munstermuffin, I think its as simple as Schmidt being a bit conservative in terms of picking the players he knows best because they know his style better than other players. That was always going to be the case when he was appointed.

 

[munstermuffin]

Munstermuffin, I think its as simple as Schmidt being a bit conservative in terms of picking the players he knows best because they know his style better than other players. That was always going to be the case when he was appointed.

But my point is how will guys like Zebo ever learn system if never invited to camp. He wasn't invited to Christmas camp, Arrived at Carlton house last Monday evening (only because Earls was injured). The whole squad trained under Schmidts staff Tuesday then Wednesday on Wolfhounds broke away for that, they did half day Thursday and gone Friday but only 1 day under Schmidt. As I said if Schmidt doesn't rate him then why not just say. Remember if Earls was fit Zebo wouldn't even have been with Wolfhounds.
But as I said to Snoop maybe it is possible he just thinks both aren't ready and are left out but guess time will say that.

@Cmac while I understand your point about Schmidt I think it's only after the 6Nations can we rate his tactics as International coach

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

As you stated earlier his track record deserves respect and the benefit of doubt but why create that kinda issue?

...but he's not creating an issue, he's selecting what he thinks is the best squad. If anyone is creating an issue it's you by bringing petty provincial rivalries into it!