Incompetent international refereeing

[austingtir]

Refereeing, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder and the vast majority of supporters only have one eye! Stop complaining about them and go and become one!!!!

These referees must be all related to you like hick cousins or something then. Because you obviously have the exact same problem as the majority of referees this year!

All I know is the standard of Refereeing has dropped markedly since Paddy O brian stopped being in charge.......

 

[TRF_heineken]

One of the things teams need to watch for with Poite is his scrum management. While he is one of the best at rewarding the dominant scrum, he often makes the decision about which scrum is dominant too early, and once he has decided that your scrum is under the cosh, its damned hard to convince him otherwise.

To be fair, all of the refs are poor at scrum time. But at the scrum they make the calls based on what the assistant referee on the other side of the scrum is seeing.

How difficult is it to get these refs together during the off season (for SH refs after the EOYT and before the Super Rugby) (NH refs after the Six nations period) to go on a scrummaging seminar. Get some of the top props, retired props, scrum coaches and any other technical guys together and get the scrummaging situation more under the control.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Lol

There's a difference between being a menace at the breakdown (within the laws, even bending them), and pretending to be injured and having little huddles to time-waste before set pieces. I think everybody knows that England are the biggest cheats in the game so you're probably desensitized to it.

Asshole

Wait a Kiwi thinking of lecturing someone else about cheating? That's quite something. I can bet this "everyone knows" is from the same school of thought as "everyone knows" England are arrogant, ie people who have an axe to grind.

Just apply a little bit of logic, England are already missing a huge chunk of our preferred players and those that have been off injured recently are either those with the best prospects for us or those that are the few remaining experienced players. You think we gain something from losing those? Also to try to claim England's fitness is one of the worst in the world when not that long ago people were praising our level of fitness is laughable.

Really can't tell if you lot are just trolls or are just genuinely that arrogant and enjoy slagging off all other nations this much?

 

[tituslechmakus]

we ain't innocent, but at least we don't dick around with time wasting and being obvious cheats. yeah, you can argue about McCaw but at least hes trying to operating within the laws. Time wasting isn't bending anything, it's just negative play. The ABs fitness is probably the best in the world, we have no reason to.

Ya right, specially when the ref allows you to cheat during the whole second half (RWC 2011 final). You can say "operating within the laws", but what if the ref does allow you to play outside those laws ?

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Well for the time loosing, all of you, just never watch a soccer match ! You will learn what it means ! So maybe up here, we are used to it, because soccer is the dominant sport ... Not an excuse, just an explanation !

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^ Yeah slowing down the game ****s me off no end, it is slow enough with scrums, we don't need other **** doing it also.

You are not used to NH refs ! We don't play the same rugby in North and South ! And it is ununderstandable in 6N, we are playing another North team with a SH ref ! I remember last Feb, we were playing Wales or Ireland with a dominating scrum, the ref never whitsled a penalty, even after 5m progression ... A NH ref would have given a penalty for ages up here ... So maybe, first harmonize refereeing in the entire world would be a good step !

 

[Mikel92]

Ya right, specially when the ref allows you to cheat during the whole second half (RWC 2011 final). You can say "operating within the laws", but what if the ref does allow you to play outside those laws ?

And this coming from the nation who got away with the biggest forward pass in history in 2007 to progress to the semi-finals. I don't think France is in a position to be self righteous when it comes to getting away with things. You were VERY spoilt by Wayne Barnes in that Cup year. We did a lot of things wrong, all of us Kiwis admit that. Rest and rotation policy didn't work, the luxurious locations and frolicking around on beaches, no solid number 13. Oh, and France played outta their skins. But don't lecture us on 2011. Not when Barnes didn't award us a single penalty for 60 minutes. Those points that helped you win? Yeah .. they should never have been given.

And by the way, nowhere have I said or implied NZ are innocent. Sometimes McCaw gets it spot on right, sometimes he is doing something illegally. And of course, where his technique is incorrect, of course - call him up on it! We slow the ball down at times, and we're even offside. We're not wee fairies who do no wrong. I dunno where you get that perception. It's not the one I am espousing.

The difference I'm trying to point out is at least we're trying things, and sometimes we get them perfect. Other times not. That's why they're the best team in the world. Not because we continuously roll out the boorish time wasting and negativity that the NH are accustomed to. Again... that isn't bending anything. It's not trying to operate within anything. You know exactly what it is, and so does the rest of the world.

Some of you English posters really need to get over yourselves. Every time someone disagrees with you (even amongst yourselves you fight like cat and dog I notice) you guys (not all) roll out the troll lines. I read a thread yesterday where things were going along just fine, and out of nowhere one of you took something your fellow countryman poster said completely out of context and went on...and on...and on about it. It's not just a gentlemanly cup of tea disagreement, it's constant instances of portraying asshole like symptoms. Posting in the Wales and Scotland threads were much more pleasant, and not because there were less of them than there are of you. But because they don't have that superiority complex going on. It's very strange. Not everyone is a troll. Maybe it's just that you are wrong. Heaven forbid. At times the arrogance really does ooze from your pores.

 

[austingtir]

Ya right, specially when the ref allows you to cheat during the whole second half (RWC 2011 final). You can say "operating within the laws", but what if the ref does allow you to play outside those laws ?

That was payback for 2007 even the Refs realise sometimes they have to balance things out!!!

 

[Groundhog]

And this coming from the nation who got away with the biggest forward pass in history in 2007 to progress to the semi-finals. I don't think France is in a position to be self righteous when it comes to getting away with things. You were VERY spoilt by Wayne Barnes in that Cup year. We did a lot of things wrong, all of us Kiwis admit that. Rest and rotation policy didn't work, the luxurious locations and frolicking around on beaches, no solid number 13. Oh, and France played outta their skins. But don't lecture us on 2011. Not when Barnes didn't award us a single penalty for 60 minutes. Those points that helped you win? Yeah .. they should never have been given.

And by the way, nowhere have I said or implied NZ are innocent. Sometimes McCaw gets it spot on right, sometimes he is doing something illegally. And of course, where his technique is incorrect, of course - call him up on it! We slow the ball down at times, and we're even offside. We're not wee fairies who do no wrong. I dunno where you get that perception. It's not the one I am espousing.

The difference I'm trying to point out is at least we're trying things, and sometimes we get them perfect. Other times not. That's why they're the best team in the world. Not because we continuously roll out the boorish time wasting and negativity that the NH are accustomed to. Again... that isn't bending anything. It's not trying to operate within anything. You know exactly what it is, and so does the rest of the world.

Some of you English posters really need to get over yourselves. Every time someone disagrees with you (even amongst yourselves you fight like cat and dog I notice) you guys (not all) roll out the troll lines. I read a thread yesterday where things were going along just fine, and out of nowhere one of you took something your fellow countryman poster said completely out of context and went on...and on...and on about it. It's not just a gentlemanly cup of tea disagreement, it's constant instances of portraying asshole like symptoms. Posting in the Wales and Scotland threads were much more pleasant, and not because there were less of them than there are of you. But because they don't have that superiority complex going on. It's very strange. Not everyone is a troll. Maybe it's just that you are wrong. Heaven forbid. At times the arrogance really does ooze from your pores.

Poppycock and horse ****, pardon my French.

 

[austingtir]

Wait a Kiwi thinking of lecturing someone else about cheating? That's quite something. I can bet this "everyone knows" is from the same school of thought as "everyone knows" England are arrogant, ie people who have an axe to grind.

Just apply a little bit of logic, England are already missing a huge chunk of our preferred players and those that have been off injured recently are either those with the best prospects for us or those that are the few remaining experienced players. You think we gain something from losing those? Also to try to claim England's fitness is one of the worst in the world when not that long ago people were praising our level of fitness is laughable.

Really can't tell if you lot are just trolls or are just genuinely that arrogant and enjoy slagging off all other nations this much?

When are you silly poms just going to admit your players injure themselves because they play a terrible brand and style of rugby!! Of course they gunna get injured all the time if they spend more time trying to harass the opposition and get themselves punched in the face constantly.

BTW was that the kind of Kiwi lecture you were looking for!?

If it wasnt for the winging poms on here this forum would be a very boring place. LOL.

 

[tituslechmakus]

And this coming from the nation who got away with the biggest forward pass in history in 2007 to progress to the semi-finals. I don't think France is in a position to be self righteous when it comes to getting away with things. You were VERY spoilt by Wayne Barnes in that Cup year. We did a lot of things wrong, all of us Kiwis admit that. Rest and rotation policy didn't work, the luxurious locations and frolicking around on beaches, no solid number 13. Oh, and France played outta their skins. But don't lecture us on 2011. Not when Barnes didn't award us a single penalty for 60 minutes. Those points that helped you win? Yeah .. they should never have been given.

And by the way, nowhere have I said or implied NZ are innocent. Sometimes McCaw gets it spot on right, sometimes he is doing something illegally. And of course, where his technique is incorrect, of course - call him up on it! We slow the ball down at times, and we're even offside. We're not wee fairies who do no wrong. I dunno where you get that perception. It's not the one I am espousing.

The difference I'm trying to point out is at least we're trying things, and sometimes we get them perfect. Other times not. That's why they're the best team in the world. Not because we continuously roll out the boorish time wasting and negativity that the NH are accustomed to. Again... that isn't bending anything. It's not trying to operate within anything. You know exactly what it is, and so does the rest of the world.

Some of you English posters really need to get over yourselves. Every time someone disagrees with you (even amongst yourselves you fight like cat and dog I notice) you guys (not all) roll out the troll lines. I read a thread yesterday where things were going along just fine, and out of nowhere one of you took something your fellow countryman poster said completely out of context and went on...and on...and on about it. It's not just a gentlemanly cup of tea disagreement, it's constant instances of portraying asshole like symptoms. Posting in the Wales and Scotland threads were much more pleasant, and not because there were less of them than there are of you. But because they don't have that superiority complex going on. It's very strange. Not everyone is a troll. Maybe it's just that you are wrong. Heaven forbid. At times the arrogance really does ooze from your pores.

Mate, I'm not talking about 1 single action in a match (ie the undoubtly 2007 forward pass), I'm talking about the whole 2011 final second half. I've seen an Irish TV report where they highlighted Joubert's magnificent performance that day ! On an action, Read did 4 fouls in 1 ruck ! And how many times has Mc Caw been offside ? At least 4 or 5 ... All of that wasn't whisteled by Joubert ! So you can't call that a mistake ! It is deliberate !
For Barnes in 2007, it is defenetly a mistake. I've seen him penalizing us so many times (he's English after all), that you cannot consider it as being corrupted or favouring any team.

For the rest of your post, I agree with you and I have never said ABs were not the best in the World. Mc Caw can paly as he wants, as long as he is penalized in case of any foul ... I'm just asking for more integrity and impartiality from the refs, towards any team ! I don't mind being beaten by better than me, but I hate being beaten due to constant ref errors or favouring.

For your last paragraph with English, well now you understand what all of the French hate, as you said : superiority complex !!!

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That was payback for 2007 even the Refs realise sometimes they have to balance things out!!!

Payback ???? 1 single mistake forward pass paid with an entire second half of cheating ? Are you sure it is fair ?

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When are you silly poms just going to admit your players injure themselves because they play a terrible brand and style of rugby!! Of course they gunna get injured all the time if they spend more time trying to harass the opposition and get themselves punched in the face constantly.

BTW was that the kind of Kiwi lecture you were looking for!?

If it wasnt for the winging poms on here this forum would be a very boring place. LOL.

Now you see what we endure all year long ! Except the week after we beat them in 6N !!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Payback ???? 1 single mistake forward pass paid with an entire second half of cheating ? Are you sure it is fair ?

What do us Saffas then have to say??

Since that 2011 final we have been receiving endless payback from French referees in our games due to one off-ish game by one of our referees?? How is this endless tirade fair to us??

 

[Mikel92]

An entire second half of cheating. Right. Cause before every match, Henry and McCaw would sit in big leather chairs in a smokey filled room and plot how they'd steal warheads and cheat France out of the game.

You may have seen a couple of instances where we could have been penalized. Woooohoooo. Now spot the amount of times France should have been penalized in the last 60 minutes of the 2007 quarter final. It's definitely in double digits.

You had Craig Joubert referee your 2011 game. We had an (at the time) inexperienced Wayne Barnes who froze on the big stage in '07 and failed to award us anything towards the end. He missed a plethora of stuff in your favour. If we could go back in time, I'll happily trade ya.

 

[Bean]

NZ would be the least cheating team IMO. The most cheating teams are definitely Australia, France, South Africa and Australia.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

This thread... so much generalization. Please don't let it descend too much further, guys and stop with the petty name calling. I mean what's the point of calling someone an 'A'-hole on a rugby forum?

 

[tituslechmakus]

An entire second half of cheating. Right. Cause before every match, Henry and McCaw would sit in big leather chairs in a smokey filled room and plot how they'd steal warheads and cheat France out of the game.

You may have seen a couple of instances where we could have been penalized. Woooohoooo. Now spot the amount of times France should have been penalized in the last 60 minutes of the 2007 quarter final. It's definitely in double digits.

You had Craig Joubert referee your 2011 game. We had an (at the time) inexperienced Wayne Barnes who froze on the big stage in '07 and failed to award us anything towards the end. He missed a plethora of stuff in your favour. If we could go back in time, I'll happily trade ya.

Yes I agree with you but again, in 2011, it was a WC final. Winning this match would have made us world champions ! But for all rugby fans in the world, was it admitible to have the ABs beaten by France in a home WC final ?

Nobody could say if your victory to us in 07 would have made you world champions as it was only a quarter final ! You would still have had to beat Eng and Saf !

And I wonder how could NZ fans be so blind ! I mean, you miss a penalty, fine, but it was visible from everybody that ABs were foul-playing and unsanctioned the whole second half ! How can you explain, even the Welsh so it ! Those Welsh we had beaten in a horrible semi ! I've had a chat with one of them and he told me the ref was far from being fair in the final !

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What do us Saffas then have to say??

Since that 2011 final we have been receiving endless payback from French referees in our games due to one off-ish game by one of our referees?? How is this endless tirade fair to us??

Now ask yourself how would your refs resact if a French ref had given the cup to England in 07 or the 95 one to the Blacks ? I won't say it is fair to endlessly do that ! But at least till the next WC maybe ? ^_^

We have never been world champions, despite beeing in semis all the time (except 91), beating Lomu's 99 team, 07 ABs, beeing beaten twice by Jonny (03 and 07), lost with a 2cm valid try (or not) in 95 semi ... And 2011 final was our day ... But got stolen by the ref ! How would you react in such a situation ?

 

[MartinS]

For a moment I thought the forum had changed to Football! The last time I checked in our beloved Rugby referees are not to be challenged or it's decisions discussed! The way I see it, they are also human and can make mistakes just as the players do. Granted, our passion can some times see the questionable calls against our team but we tend to overlook the ones that are for our team.

This is not a perfect world and in a game that is fast, strong and difficult to be on top of everything it will have some "questionable calls" - May be it is time to have more than one ref, as is the case on other sports. I really don's know, and rest asure that many times I want to k...l the ref! But as we stress on our Club - The referee is ALWAYS RIGHT!

 

[tituslechmakus]

NZ would be the least cheating team IMO. The most cheating teams are definitely Australia, France, South Africa and Australia.

Australia ... and Australia again :lol: you're a kiwi for sure !

But you forgot the Greens ! They are very good at cheating in the rucks ! Alomst as good as Richie himself !

I don't see France cheating too much (maybe because I'm french) ! We manage to loose by ourselves, no need to cheat for that !

 

[Brom]

Lots of interesting responses but not much actually about why there are so many clear infringements not blown by referees. I'm not talking about interpretational infringements in rucks, mauls and scrums. Those are usually very hard for spectators to see clearly. What everyone can see easily are knock ons and forward passes, particularly these days with replays available in seconds. Some people have said that refs are only human and make mistakes. The point I'm making is that these small infringement which are overlooked are not apparently mistakes because they are clearly seen. What needs explaining is why it seems to be felt that a small knock on, say, by the scrumhalf at the base of a ruck, or loose ball dropped in a slightly forward direction should be let go. Any views on this?

 

[Peat]

Personally, I feel like I've seen far more balls spilled backwards called as knock-ons than I have seen knock-ons go missed.

In any case, it's clearly not as easy as it seems to get all of those right.

 

[Shaggy]

Personally, I feel like I've seen far more balls spilled backwards called as knock-ons than I have seen knock-ons go missed.

In any case, it's clearly not as easy as it seems to get all of those right.

Exactly, and what one person sees "clearly", someone else sees it differently, and equally "clearly" ... yes, officials make mistakes. Should they try to rectify their mistakes, and attain consistency with their fellow refs, absolutely - Refs and Assistant Refs are evaluated on their match performance, and are "dropped" from elite matches if they aren't up to scratch.

As Cooky eluded to, players make mistakes too, and their mistakes will undoubtedly effect the outcomes of matches in the RWC too - I'm sure the refs know what's at stake, and will do their best to have as little impact on the games as possible through errors and inconsistent rulings

 

[Peat]

The big question for me - will the refs have as much training on how to avoid those mistakes as the players? I think we know the answer and I'd like to see steps towards changing that (although I don't know how much training they do now or how I'd change it)