How does your squad look for next season?

[BPM]

What is the general consensus on the optimum size of a first-team squad?

Allowing for international call-ups and injuries, 40-45 with roughly 3 players per position feels about right to me.

Any more than that and I think it would get difficult to keep everyone happy. Less than 40 feels to light though unless you have very few international players.

 

[SelimNiai]

Our latest squad update

1) Jack O'Connell, Soane Tonga'uiha, Kyle Traynor

2) Chris Brooker, Max Crumpton, Marc Jones, Ross McMillan

3) Gaston Cortes, Jamal Ford-Robinson, James Hall, Anthony Perenise

4) Ian Evans, Joe Joyce, Glen Townson

5) Ben Glynn, Mark Sorenson

6) Jordan Crane, Jon Fisher, Nick Köster

7) Nick Fenton-Wells, Jack Lam, Olly Robinson

8) Mitch Eadie, James Phillips, Rayn Smid



9) Will Cliff, Martin Roberts, Rhodri Williams

10) Adrian Jarvis, Tusi Pisi, Callum Sheedy

11) Ryan Edwards, David Lemi

12) Gavin Henson, Will Hurrell, Ben Mosses, Thretton Palamo

13) Nick Carpenter, Gareth Maule, Jack Tovey

14) Charlie Amesbury, Tom Varndell

15) Luke Arscott, Auguy Slowik, Jack Wallace, Jordan Williams

Fairly solid squad, but the talk from the club is that we aren't finished with incomings yet

 

[Which Tyler]

What is the general consensus on the optimum size of a first-team squad?

It depends on how many international players you have (especially within a unit) and what strengths you have in the academy; but I'll stand by this for now:

Personally, I always like to have 2 for each position, + a full bench; and probably another bench's worth of kids / 4th choicers ready to cover minor emergencies.

Which is 38, with another 8 or so ready to step up; whether from the academy or as senior squad-fillers.
I'd then say that if you provide a couple of internationals in 1 unit, then you need a little extra cover there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

It depends on how many international players you have (especially within a unit) and what strengths you have in the academy; but I'll stand by this for now:

Which is 38, with another 8 or so ready to step up; whether from the academy or as senior squad-fillers.
I'd then say that if you provide a couple of internationals in 1 unit, then you need a little extra cover there.

I would agree with this although i feel the front row should have 4 players in each position with senior academy covering 5th choice. (Esp if you have Champions cup rugby)

TBH i like Tigers setup cover wise (Just shy a back ATM)
41 senior squad and 12 in the Senior Academy.

 

[BPM]

The Tigers squad does look very strong this season.

There's a very nice balance there with lots of experienced players complemented by some excellent prospects.

i could be wrong, but I think Ayerza is the only one over 30 and you've got lots of players in that 25-30 peak age group which is enviable.

IMO, you're a top class number 8 short but that's about it!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The Tigers squad does look very strong this season.

There's a very nice balance there with lots of experienced players complemented by some excellent prospects.

i could be wrong, but I think Ayerza is the only one over 30 and you've got lots of players in that 25-30 peak age group which is enviable.

IMO, you're a top class number 8 short but that's about it!

Rizzo is 34 in September, but i don't think we have anyone else other than those two over 30 (Tait turns 31 in feb).

 

[Which Tyler]

Out of interest - over on the Bath Boards; Ballsout has put this up

 

[Raggs]

Don't Bath have Walker at hooker?

Wasps

1. Mullan, Mcintyre, Bristow, Lundberg
2. Taylor, Johnson, Cruse, Woolstencroft
3. Cooper-Woolley, Moore, Swainston
4. Launchbury, Symonds, Cannon, Garrett
5. Gaskell, Myall, Rowlands
6. Haskell, Reider
7. Young, Thompson, (Willis)
8. Hughes, Jones

9. Robson, Simpson, Hampson
10. Cipriani, Gopperth
11. Halai, Bassett
12. Eastmond, Armitage, Macken
13. Daly, Leiua, De Luca
14. Wade, Tagicakibau
15. Miller, Beale

No idea how many of our academy players would be ready, think Howe at least could fill in.

 

[BPM]

Interesting document ... For Bath, I count 2 centres (Bowden and Joseph) and 3 wingers (Banahan, Rokoduguni and Williams), but either way it's the same total.

Bath are in a very odd place. The first team is competitive, but total of 33 in the first-team squad is clearly too few, yet they're currently selling players rather than acquiring them ... International call-ups and injuries will leave them really exposed.

On paper, the pack could be improved, but is fairly good. However, they desperately need backs. Without exaggerating, I'd say they're something like 8 players short in the backs alone. Knowing who's likely to be called-up for the internationals, they probably need another AP ready fly half, 4 more centres, 2 more wingers and another full back.

That's a lot of players and with only 6 weeks or so until the start of the season, I can't see many AP or Pro12 clubs that will be willing to sell anyone decent. One or two of the academy prospects could step-up, but they're either going to need to really splash the cash or sign a bunch of journeymen on shorter contracts to get them through the season.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't Bath have Walker at hooker?

Wasps

1. Mullan, Mcintyre, Bristow, Lundberg
2. Taylor, Johnson, Cruse, Woolstencroft
3. Cooper-Woolley, Moore, Swainston
4. Launchbury, Symonds, Cannon, Garrett
5. Gaskell, Myall, Rowlands
6. Haskell, Reider
7. Young, Thompson, (Willis)
8. Hughes, Jones

9. Robson, Simpson, Hampson
10. Cipriani, Gopperth
11. Halai, Bassett
12. Eastmond, Armitage, Macken
13. Daly, Leiua, De Luca
14. Wade, Tagicakibau
15. Miller, Beale

No idea how many of our academy players would be ready, think Howe at least could fill in.

I'd not really looked at the Wasps squad as a whole.

Looks very strong in most positions, but if Wade or Halai were to pick up an injury, the second choice wingers are a big step down.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the academy players too. Willis, Stuart and West looked decent for the U20s and apparently Ehizode from the U18 squad is another Itoje in the making.

 

[Raggs]

Bassett is a very good winger, huge determination, good pace, and absolutely fearless (stopped Rokoduguni in full flight by basically hitting him upright, face to face). Leiua is more than capable on the wing too, Miller isn't shabby there, Beale can cover well, as can Simpson and Daly, Armitage too I believe (Robson has too, but I think he's 1st choice scrumhalf). The advantage with so much pace in the side is that pretty much everyone can give wing a fair shot.

 

[Rinkadink]

Our latest squad update

You're welcome!

Who from the club says we're recruiting more BTW? I'd not be shocked to see one or two more, lock seems thin for example, but I reckon we're basically done until after Xmas.

 

[Which Tyler]

Don't Bath have Walker at hooker?

Yes, alongside Batty, Van Veerun and Dunn

Interesting document ... For Bath, I count 2 centres (Bowden and Joseph) and 3 wingers (Banahan, Rokoduguni and Williams), but either way it's the same total.

Bath are in a very odd place. The first team is competitive, but total of 33 in the first-team squad is clearly too few, yet they're currently selling players rather than acquiring them ... International call-ups and injuries will leave them really exposed.

I suspect he's counting Jeff Williams as a centre (he's listed as centre / wing) and remembering that we've signed Harry Davies (whilst forgetting Sisi's return).
He is also discounting that Obano and Clark are almost certainly senior players this season too. That 33 is realistically 36.
Of course, Bath are still light of players; especially at THP (1 player) and centre (2 players); and particularly light when the likes of Faletau, Denton & Louw, or Ford and Preistland are away.

Of course, we cannot rule out that further signings have been made and are waiting for the coaching announcements first; especially if they're actually with the new coach's input (here's hoping for Jonny Williams, Piers Francis and Owen Franks). getting enough does seem like a stretch though; and even those 3 would still leave us a little exposed during international periods or an injury crisis.

 

[SelimNiai]

You're welcome!

Who from the club says we're recruiting more BTW? I'd not be shocked to see one or two more, lock seems thin for example, but I reckon we're basically done until after Xmas.

Andy Robinson hinted in the coverage of the 7s yesterday. Agree lock is a potential issue, but wouldnt mind another 3 or 4 just to bulk the squad up a tad.

Apologies for just lifting that from the network site btw

 

[BPM]

Of course, we cannot rule out that further signings have been made and are waiting for the coaching announcements first; especially if they're actually with the new coach's input (here's hoping for Jonny Williams, Piers Francis and Owen Franks). getting enough does seem like a stretch though; and even those 3 would still leave us a little exposed during international periods or an injury crisis.

Francis would be a good signing. He's been playing as a 12, but also covers 10 so would be a very good replacement for Devoto. However, considering that he's pretty much just broken through with the Blues, I can't see him heading home any time in the immediate future.

AFAIK, Franks and Williams have committed to stay at Irish, but would be ideal signings. I imagine part of Williams' desire to stay with Irish was the knowledge that he'd be the likely first choice, but with Eastmond going, he'd also have that opportunity with Bath at a higher level, so it wouldn't be illogical for him to follow in Joseph, Watson and Homer's footsteps.

Realistically, I think Bath either need to target young players who may be down the pecking order at other clubs, AP stalwarts, former internationals that can still cut it for a season or two, or uncapped or out of favour SH players who aren't likely to make it as Springboks, All Blacks or Wallabies.

With Devoto, Hill and Whitten, Exeter arguably have too many 12s, so it might be worth seeing if they'd be willing to sell one of the latter two? Someone like Sinoti Sinoti might fancy a bigger club than Falcons and would be a good reserve for JJ. If those rumours about Ma'a Nonu being in the area are true, why not give him a call? He could do a lot worse than playing between Ford and Joseph.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Francias prob the most likely but could see him staying another year although @ 25 he will need to return to England sharpish, if he wants an English cap but might he want to go to a club playing Champions Cup rugby?
I could see clubs going after him
Saracens - Whilst they have Barritt with Hodgson off they might want to have a second playmaker 12? Yes he is saracens captain but how many games did Hargreaves play last season behind Itoje and Kruis?
Sale - Big hole here for them now that Eastmond isn't coming, as big sam and Leota are getting on a bit 34 and 32 years old a backline of
9) Stringer
10) MacGinty
11) Edwards
12) Francais
13) James
14) Addison
15) Haley
Is pretty damn nice and Francais could be the marquee signing (And with new owners might be possible) since Kruger has done a 360 and moonwalked out of the club.
Harlequins - They need a 10 coming in Jackson is decent but great but can't see Francais viewing his England shot as being a 10.
Gloucester Rugby - Hook and Twelvetrees are not working IMO for Glous, I think 36 is good enough to be a starter ATM he is too inconsistent and thinks he is Manu and can run through people.
Bristol - Have the money but won't be able to attract the likes of SBW, Hogg etc etc which there fans seem to think they are signing, Francais and Pisi would be a good attacking combo.

I can't see Williams leaving Irish till end of next season at earliest.
He wasn't in the same academy group as the Sisi, Watson, JJ, Homer etc etc and i can't see the lure being as strong yet.
Franks if he was going to leave he would of done so by now.

 

[BPM]

Interesting analysis on Francis and his options.

My thoughts are fairly similar - I'm just trying to think of centres that Bath may be able to sign and it's not a long list (or at least not an obvious list).

I agree that he won't be rushing home just yet. However, there was an article about him in today's TRP where the closing quote re. test ambitions was: "From the point of view you've got to play in the Premiership. At the moment, my future's unresolved so we'll leave it at that".

If I were him, I'd give it another season, prove I'm not a flash in the pan and then head home for the start of the 17/18 season with two seasons to have a crack at making the World Cup squad for Japan 2019.

I agree that he's unlikely to compete as a 10 for England, so he needs to go somewhere where he'll be starting at 12. Who knows what will happen over the course of the next 12 months, but provided that they don't get relegated, I'd still see Bath as a leading option (Champions Cup or otherwise). Particularly, as he'd be playing in between Ford and Joseph which would give him a great opportunity to put his case forward for that being a possible test combination.

Bath and Sale would suit his game better than Sarries and, to be honest, I'm not sure he'd go back there after they rejected him as a youngster? I'd also very happily have him at Quins as a 12. I'm not sure Jamie Roberts is really suited to us longer-term and based upon what I've seen so far, I'm not sure Harry Sloan will be any more than a solid AP player.

 

[SelimNiai]

Our latest squad update

1) Jack O'Connell, Soane Tonga'uiha, Kyle Traynor

2) Chris Brooker, Max Crumpton, Marc Jones, Ross McMillan

3) Gaston Cortes, Jamal Ford-Robinson, James Hall, Anthony Perenise

4) Ian Evans, Joe Joyce, Glen Townson

5) Ben Glynn, Mark Sorenson, Giorgi Nemsadze, BJ Edwards (on 6 month trail from Eastern Suburbs, Sydney)

6) Jordan Crane, Jon Fisher, Nick Köster

7) Nick Fenton-Wells, Jack Lam, Olly Robinson

8) Mitch Eadie, James Phillips, Rayn Smid



9) Will Cliff, Martin Roberts, Rhodri Williams

10) Adrian Jarvis, Tusi Pisi, Callum Sheedy

11) Ryan Edwards, David Lemi

12) Gavin Henson, Will Hurrell, Ben Mosses, Thretton Palamo

13) Nick Carpenter, Gareth Maule, Jack Tovey

14) Charlie Amesbury, Tom Varndell

15) Luke Arscott, Auguy Slowik, Jack Wallace, Jordan Williams

Fairly solid squad, but the talk from the club is that we aren't finished with incomings yet

Updated with new signings

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

what happened to Bristol signing Wade, Hogg, Smith, SBW,

 

[SelimNiai]

Deep in the dreams of those who suddenly think promotion means we're among the elite in Europe

 

[Rinkadink]

No problem with the lift, it's meant to be shared and enjoyed!

And like magic the thin lock situation is addressed. (^_-)