I don't buy for a second that the All Blacks are universally loved, respected yes, but loved no. Just have a gander at any archived match thread here involving New Zealand, I can't exactly feel the love in nearly any of them(in fact I've actually been thinking of suggesting segregated match threads they are so atrocious.)
Oh, not just archived match threads here, but ANY youtube video featuring the All Blacks, any thread on any if the other rugby forums like Planet Rugby or The Silver Fern. They bring out the haters in their droves.
Oh look it's you. Addressing points I never ****ing made as per usual. Right firstly in recent history Toulon were up until 2005/6 a Pro D2 side who bounced between division two and one. I don't know about the times before that and honestly don't care but they have certainly not been a constant European force and this particular side is entirely built in recent years, within a couple of seasons.
Yep. Looking at the ERC website, and the Top 14 website (even though it is in French, I can easily follow it) you are right on the money with this. They certainly do not have the pedigree of a side like Leicester Tigers or Stade Francais or Toulouse, who won the very first Heineken Cup in 1995/96. Toulon are like Watford FC in 1980's English First Division Football; a club whose brief period in the limelight was entirely down to the money put in to the club by their owner, Elton John. When his involvement ended, Watford sunk back into the mire.
I never said they weren't self funding, so good job there champ. The fact remains that it was funding from an outside source which brought them to this level, whether they can operate autonomously now or not. If you read the post instead of getting so defensive you would notice I said that given a few years to gel with a consistent roster of world class players and a decent environment, a class team could be built. Racing have neither. I'm not jealous of Toulon, we have a different rugby culture in Ireland whereby I would hate to see my team populated so greatly by foreign players. I'm sure I would see it differently were I brought up in the French rugby tradition but I am not. I would sure like that amount of money, but more so we could hold on to all the players we produce and invest it in the academy and at grass roots (yes I am aware Toulon do have a decent academy), with the occasional signing in an area we are weak.
If you can't actually argue someone's points without getting wildly defensive, don't join a forum, it's here for debate. For the record Toulon deserved their win yesterday, we were rightly outplayed, and I have no ill wishes towards most of Toulon's players. It's the ideal of Toulon I dislike.
Pretty much, if the IRFU were to allow the the Provinces to be in private ownership and hire whatever players they liked from anywhere in the world, then within a few years it would kill Irish rugby stone dead below the neck. Same would likely happen in Wales and it would definitely happen here and in Australia, which is why we don't allow it. The Rugby culture is NZ is too important to us to allow that to happen here.
The game at the top Club/Province end would get rich at the expense of the game at grass roots. The National Unions, without any effective income stream other than International Rugby, would not have the money to develop the game at grass roots and youth level. Will club owners pick up the slack? Well, they don't in England and France, so there is no reason to believe they would in Ireland or anywhere else. With the Club/Province owners dictating the terms under which players would be allowed to play for their national teams, the credibility of international rugby falls, reducing the National Union income streams even further. Watch over the next few weeks how many English players try to avoid the trip to NZ in June, as they cry off one by one because they are
"too tired" or have some previously undiagnosed injury that needs
"rest or minor surgery". Its happened year, after year, after year. Already, the first test will be against a below par England team because of the players who will be missing due to Premiership/Heineken Cup finals commitments.
