Heineken Cup 2013/14 Pool 3, Round 2

[Jaguares]

That drop kick was very very close

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Was the dropkick partially charged down?

 

[j'nuh]

Whoop whoop. *fist pump*

What was it Barnes was saying about Sarries looking like a team that never loses at home?

 

[Big Ewis]

Was the dropkick partially charged down?

yeh man, it was blocked. That's why it barely made any length.

 

[Prestwick]

My thoughts on sarries performance? One moments of recklessness can lead to a life time of regret :'(

 

[Feicarsinn]

My thoughts on sarries performance? One moments of recklessness can lead to a life time of regret :'(

A touch melodramatic, no?

The end sort of reminded me of when we guys played you in Wembley a few years ago. Saracens just seem to lack the top 5% to put the best sides in Europe away. They can get themselves in the position, but they really shouldn't have allowed Toulouse back into that game.

 

[Prestwick]

A touch melodramatic, no?

:''(

 

[ratsapprentice]

Sarries really should have got some points out of the 10 minute period after half time; just before ST started bringing on their replacements.
They had good possession but were just a bit lateral and never really looked like scoring.
I had an inkling the game was lost after that - and so it was.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Having watched the whole game, quite funny to read the comments posted during the game this morning, especially as the result has no bearing on the posts.
BUT FIRST BLOOD TO FRANCE. i bet Census Jonstone enjoyed that one, especially having being turfed out of Saracens some years back by the Saffercens, time Matt Stevens went back to his coffee shop in Bath got done up like a kipper in the front row!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

I had an inkling the game was lost after that - and so it was.

amen.

 

[Prestwick]

Having watched the whole game, quite funny to read the comments posted during the game this morning, especially as the result has no bearing on the posts.
BUT FIRST BLOOD TO FRANCE. i bet Census Jonstone enjoyed that one, especially having being turfed out of Saracens some years back by the Saffercens, time Matt Stevens went back to his coffee shop in Bath got done up like a kipper in the front row!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough of the trolling. Census left before the new guys came in and for entirely different reasons. He's also still massively loved and respected by club and fan alike in north London so perhaps a bit more respect from you to the big man himself please.

 

[Packman]

Not exactly Eurocup winning form from Saracens. They are not out of it yet, but they will have to beat a few big teams like Toulouse to pick up the cup and that fact is that they can't do it in their own back yard, so how are they going to travel and pull it off?

Also, bit bored of the Owen Farrel hype. I just don;t see Farrel or Saracens as Champion material. Something Stuart Lancaster needs to consider carefully if he expects England to put up a real challenge in RWC 2015.

I'm thinking Flood at Ten with a different kicker. If we go down the penalty penalty penalty route then we'll lose to every country that has a decent attack. In fact we'll be lucky to get out of our Pool. I just struggle with the idea of Saracens / their players and their ethos sweeping all aside. It's limited scope limited threat rugby.

 

[Big Ewis]

I know this is way late, but I've just rewatched the Saracens Toulouse one, in its entirety this time.
- Galan did looked HUGE in the first half, there's a couple of plays where he just - won't - go - down, period. And there are like 4 tacklers at one point !
- Huget and Médard looked good, promising signs as they can be a little flat during stretches.
- I think I'm starting to become a fan of the Saracens...I'm going to start watching some more Premiership when I can...very nice team, "une belle équipe" as we'd say, a "beautiful team" word for word...just wish I'd have seen more of Kelly Brown...but Farrell was very good, Ashton looked really good in stretches. Great chemistry on that team, and what defense !!!..Toulouse rightfully would have scored a couple more tries or 3 on another team, they were on top form (despite some silly mistakes..). Tremendous resistance.
- Picamoles's still the man.

 

[Prestwick]

Galan looked immense though he isn't as dynamic in defence I feel as he is on the charge. Thats something Billy Vunipola had over him (I know he was playing at 6 but he is meant to be a number 8 after all). Brown has been at his finest form for months now and if he carries that into the 6N, Scotland will love him for it. Brilliant carries by the big man. The team worked well and they were stringing together some excellent attacking plays which almost paid off several times.

Owen Farrell I thought had his best game in ages. He literally did everything that was asked of him. He sat as close as possible and ran the ball hard. Off loaded quite a fair bit, kicked superbly and defended stoically. His turnover in the second half was excellent. Basically he did everything we expect Burns to do only he brought the added defensive x-factor to the party. He needs more game time at international level and he's still England's go to 10. Flood just isn't consistent enough and doesn't get the back line going as much as his fans claim he does and Burns isn't the complete package whatever Stuart Barnes may say.

Despite all of that though, Toulouse were just too good and their guys just too strong. It wasn't just size, you had guys on par with the Sarries guys winning collisions 99% of the time in the 2nd half which wasn't good enough for us. We just got swept away and I fear we'll have the same problem when we visit Toulouse

 

[Peat]

Don't get how you can say a fly-half who missed two penalties and two drop-goals in a 1 point match did everything asked of him. Didn't think he did too much fantastic ball in hand either, but I might have got that wrong - but the kicking is a bald statistic and bluntly sub-international.

 

[Prestwick]

The two missed penalties were both from the half way line almost and one of them was a do-or-die, down in a blaze of glory effort. He did pretty damn well with ball in hand and helped fashion one try and at least other two near chances (including the Duncan "I'll back myself instead of exploiting the four-on-one" Taylor incident).

I think he did pretty damn well behind a pack which was rapidly going backwards at times and helped keep Sarries in touch. I honestly don't think we could have asked for anything more of him and doubt that anybody could have done any better on the day.

EDIT: Changing the subject, just checking the stats and the only major difference between the two teams was scrums won and lost which tells the tale of the game. It was Toulouse's mastery of the set piece what won it. Saracens ironically edged things in terms of rucks won with honours even in terms of mauls.

 

[Big Ewis]

Don't get how you can say a fly-half who missed two penalties and two drop-goals in a 1 point match did everything asked of him. Didn't think he did too much fantastic ball in hand either, but I might have got that wrong - but the kicking is a bald statistic and bluntly sub-international.

dude, come on now, that's not fair. He played a tremendous game defensively, played his 10 role amazingly, especially with the boot. He even won a defensive penalty in the freaking ruck at a point, and that was when Toulouse were right there within 5-7m of the Sarries tryline.
The drop goal at the end was a rushed scheme by the whole team, it's cheap to list it amongst his flaws of the game like that, it's not fair. And he made some fine penalty kicks too.
He looked very, very good that night.

Galan looked immense though he isn't as dynamic in defence I feel as he is on the charge. Thats something Billy Vunipola had over him (I know he was playing at 6 but he is meant to be a number 8 after all). Brown has been at his finest form for months now and if he carries that into the 6N, Scotland will love him for it. Brilliant carries by the big man. The team worked well and they were stringing together some excellent attacking plays which almost paid off several times.

Owen Farrell I thought had his best game in ages. He literally did everything that was asked of him. He sat as close as possible and ran the ball hard. Off loaded quite a fair bit, kicked superbly and defended stoically. His turnover in the second half was excellent. Basically he did everything we expect Burns to do only he brought the added defensive x-factor to the party. He needs more game time at international level and he's still England's go to 10. Flood just isn't consistent enough and doesn't get the back line going as much as his fans claim he does and Burns isn't the complete package whatever Stuart Barnes may say.

Despite all of that though, Toulouse were just too good and their guys just too strong. It wasn't just size, you had guys on par with the Sarries guys winning collisions 99% of the time in the 2nd half which wasn't good enough for us. We just got swept away and I fear we'll have the same problem when we visit Toulouse

Yes, Galan definitely needs to work (self-admittedly) on mobility, repositioning, and defense. But he's still just a big baby, raw but already influential, even for as a big a team as Toulouse...I'm very reassured at the idea that when Picamoles goes away, we've got a HUGE ball-carrier again in Galan, and straight out of the school of Picamoles and S.Toulousain.
Kelly Brown can carry, yup. He had that big gallop towards the end, very powerful. And he's a workhorse on defense, but again, didn't see him much in this one.

And yes, from what I've seen Farrell kicks Burns' a$s big time on defense. And probably a much better kicker, I'm assuming. Flood is old news I think. I mean, I haven't exactly followed him daily for the past year, but as efficient as he is, England should totally look for new blood (like France) at that position. Farrell is just fine, even by England standards (FH position seems to be more important for England than other nations...). Burns does attack more though from those summer tests I saw.

Anyways, beautiful game. I'm sorry any team had Toulouse, errr I mean *to lose (ha ha ha, how original..). I like the Saracens now. That match kind of convinced me I genuinely liked them. I hope to see more of them, and on that form, and I wish them success in the HC and hope to see them go far and put up huge battles deep into the cup playoffs...(just not over a french team, please !..)

P.S.: if it makes you feel any better, while you fear the Sarries going to Toulouse, I on my side fear Toulouse won't match the Saracens' aggressiveness and initiative. Toulouse are very "French" in that right now they probably feel like they've beaten their demons already by winning the toughest match of the Pool, and will possibly fall back on the idea that they're at home, against a team they beat abroad. And the Saracens are very English, in that they are cunning (don't mean this pejoratively) and will exploit that French weakness.
Well, this is all speculation, nothing more...

 

[Big Ewis]

(not a double poszszst §§)

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_8980462,00.html

Toulouse no.10 Luke McAlister to miss 4 months !

 

[Peat]

I'm not saying he had a bad game - but if we are saying he literally did everything asked of him and that his performance was that of an England first choice fly-half, then high standards should be expected of him. He did not meet those when kicking at goal. If you step up and say "I can get those", then you've gotta get them. Range is a very slender excuse. The drop goal being rushed is an even worse one - if he can't organise his team into giving him a nice, calm, unhurried shot then he's a crap fly-half. You're bossing the team. You're making the call. In that situation, it should not come back to you until you are well and truly ready.

I don't want to get drawn on the rest of his game, I don't remember the game well enough to speak with any confidence, but I just cannot tally Prestwick's words with what I saw and what the stats say on this specific issue. If he thinks he did a lot of things right, then fair enough, that's worth celebrating, but he was clearly far from flawless and in an incredibly important way. If that is worthy of the praise Prestwick has labelled on him, then I think Prestwick needs to expect more from Saracens players. I certainly do from England players.

 

[Prestwick]

Yes, Galan definitely needs to work (self-admittedly) on mobility, repositioning, and defense. But he's still just a big baby, raw but already influential, even for as a big a team as Toulouse...I'm very reassured at the idea that when Picamoles goes away, we've got a HUGE ball-carrier again in Galan, and straight out of the school of Picamoles and S.Toulousain.
Kelly Brown can carry, yup. He had that big gallop towards the end, very powerful. And he's a workhorse on defense, but again, didn't see him much in this one.

I think if Galan fixes his positioning then he'd be fine in defence in my view. Picamoles can point Galan in the right direction in that regard I feel.

Galan in my view is much like Ben Morgan and Kieran Read. We're seeing a new faster, more powerful and dynamic kind of number eight of which we haven't seen for years and years.