Heinekec Cup 2013/14 Pool 3, Round 5 (Toulouse v Saracens, Connacht v Zebre)

[FrenchFan]

Never said Irish had monopoly as I think French sides like Toulouse and Clermont have heart. In 2 games vs Ulster I though Montpellier had no heart or interest.

Not true. Montpellier went into a difficult pool agst 2 former european champs with way more european experience. I didnt see their 1st game at home agst Ulster, so i wont comment. In their return game away to Ulster, they put on largely a 2nd string side that didnt roll over easily. Now thats not an excuse, lookijng at the team compo i can just tell it wasnt their first side. Ulster had to work hard to put them away and the scoreline 27-16 is nothing to be ashamed
In any case, there was nothing in their display that suggest they have 'no heart'. In their game away to Leicester, they lost but scored 32 points incl. 4 tries and remember French sides can't travel blabla...How many fairly inexperienced european sides like Montpellier travel to Leicester and rack up 4 tries against the Tigers. In the return game at home, they made 14 changes if i recall during the week and lost by the narrowest margin of 1 point. Im sure those 14 changes were motivated by their following game agst Toulon. They didnt get the result Montpellier in their pool but they're still quite new to Europe and their priority is the Top 14, but they got the performances.

 

[FrenchFan]

That's sport. Toulouse lost at home to a Connacht team who are poor and with a budget that probably equals 1 or 2 players salaries. French teams of all can hardly comment on rotation as they do it in HEC and throw games

if there was one game they could afford to throw that was it!

 

[munstermuffin]

Not true. Montpellier went into a difficult pool agst 2 former european champs with way more european experience. I didnt see their 1st game at home agst Ulster, so i wont comment. In their return game away to Ulster, they put on largely a 2nd string side that didnt roll over easily. Now thats not an excuse, lookijng at the team compo i can just tell it wasnt their first side. Ulster had to work hard to put them away and the scoreline 27-16 is nothing to be ashamed
In any case, there was nothing in their display that suggest they have 'no heart'. In their game away to Leicester, they lost but scored 32 points incl. 4 tries and remember French sides can't travel blabla...How many fairly inexperienced european sides like Montpellier travel to Leicester and rack up 4 tries against the Tigers. In the return game at home, they made 14 changes if i recall during the week and lost by the narrowest margin of 1 point. Im sure those 14 changes were motivated by their following game agst Toulon. They didnt get the result Montpellier in their pool but they're still quite new to Europe and their priority is the Top 14, but they got the performances.

Ulster could've beaten them by more and towards end of games they rolled over and died. In my eyes that's no heart. They sent 2nd string and that alone was no heart but then guys knew their place and after 50mins just gave up. Selections rub off and players knew no one had interest. 2 former European champs doesn't mean you roll over. To loose 2 games at home shows my point easily. They in my eyes had no heart or interest and well results prove that

 

[munstermuffin]

if there was one game they could afford to throw that was it!

But they didn't throw it Connacht were the better team on day

 

[FrenchFan]

Ulster could've beaten them by more and towards end of games they rolled over and died. In my eyes that's no heart. They sent 2nd string and that alone was no heart but then guys knew their place and after 50mins just gave up. Selections rub off and players knew no one had interest. 2 former European champs doesn't mean you roll over. To loose 2 games at home shows my point easily. They in my eyes had no heart or interest and well results prove that

they didnt get the result but they didnt go into the HCup saying they were going to win it. Thats what you think. Your media love to talk up the opposition. Its typically Irish. You cant rise to the challenge of being favourite. Its the chokers mentality.
Montpellier performance in the pool contradicts your view. They didnt get the result but they got the performance. They were competitve in Ulster with a 2nd string squad. That speak volumes about their potential. Ulster are a one man team. Take out Pienarr and they will struggle.

 

[FrenchFan]

But they didn't throw it Connacht were the better team on day

yes agst a Toulouse side that played at 60% of their potential. Toulouse can take the foot off the pedal on the odd game. Thats allowed and they have done before. They dont have the arrogance to think they can win every game.They have lost games at pool stages in previous seasons, didnt stop them to make 6 finals and win 4 ***les. Connact wouldn't survive in ProD2 with games week in week out, never mind the Top 14

 

[Big Ewis]

yes agst a Toulouse side that played at 60% of their potential. Toulouse can take the foot off the pedal on the odd game. Thats allowed and they have done before. They dont have the arrogance to think they can win every game.They have lost games at pool stages in previous seasons, didnt stop them to make 6 finals and win 4 ***les. Connact wouldn't survive in ProD2 with games week in week out, never mind the Top 14

you're right but Connacht still played a very, very nice game that day. But Toulouse were just elsewhere, granted...even against Zebre the last time out there, Toulouse looked like they were just messing around. I don't think it's a question of arrogance from Toulouse or lack thereof as you've said, but just insouciance. They keep saying ahead of matches "we can't underestimate this team, we can't fall into that trap..." and then they do exactly and precisely that. It's quite comical at times. Really.

 

[FrenchFan]

you're right but Connacht still played a very, very nice game that day. But Toulouse were just elsewhere, granted...even against Zebre the last time out there, Toulouse looked like they were just messing around. I don't think it's a question of arrogance from Toulouse or lack thereof as you've said, but just insouciance. They keep saying ahead of matches "we can't underestimate this team, we can't fall into that trap..." and then they do exactly and precisely that. It's quite comical at times. Really.

I didnt see the game agst les Zebres. But i was told the conditions didnt lend to scoring many tries. And the italians threw the kitchen sink at them with a 15 man defense. Fair play to them. I wouldnt necessarily question Toulouse's attitude. You can't always get what u want esp. on a rugby pitch You have to look at the game and the conditions. Its hard to score 4 tries on a muddy pitch with a greasy ball and 15 men playing a barricade in defense. Its just rugby

 

[Big Ewis]

I didnt see the game agst les Zebres. But i was told the conditions didnt lend to scoring many tries. And the italians threw the kitchen sink at them with a 15 man defense. Fair play to them. I wouldnt necessarily question Toulouse's attitude. You can't always get what u want esp. on a rugby pitch You have to look at the game and the conditions. Its hard to score 4 tries on a muddy pitch with a greasy ball and 15 men playing a barricade in defense. Its just rugby

It wasn't nearly that bad, and they were pushing at times then slowing down again, in cycles. Didn't really put their minds to it, they tried to merely overpower the Italian side. They scored just the one try, that's pretty bad for a club like Toulouse. There's no denying Toulouse sometimes come to play and sometimes don't. Absolutely no denying it.

 

[munstermuffin]

yes agst a Toulouse side that played at 60% of their potential. Toulouse can take the foot off the pedal on the odd game. Thats allowed and they have done before. They dont have the arrogance to think they can win every game.They have lost games at pool stages in previous seasons, didnt stop them to make 6 finals and win 4 ***les. Connact wouldn't survive in ProD2 with games week in week out, never mind the Top 14

No but Connacht don't have a fraction of their budget. And it's not Connachts fault they lacked bottle that day to play. Has history got much to do with it Munster make QFs annually excluding 1 year does that make much difference to today. Not really. Also Clermont got 4 tries vs Raving in a lot harder conditions but then again they don't play for much in Top 14 I guess

 

[FrenchFan]

No but Connacht don't have a fraction of their budget. And it's not Connachts fault they lacked bottle that day to play. Has history got much to do with it Munster make QFs annually excluding 1 year does that make much difference to today. Not really. Also Clermont got 4 tries vs Raving in a lot harder conditions but then again they don't play for much in Top 14 I guess

its raCing not Raving. The only thing Raving here is you.

Ulster could've beaten them by more and towards end of games they rolled over and died. In my eyes that's no heart. They sent 2nd string and that alone was no heart but then guys knew their place and after 50mins just gave up. Selections rub off and players knew no one had interest. 2 former European champs doesn't mean you roll over. To loose 2 games at home shows my point easily. They in my eyes had no heart or interest and well results prove that

here is a point that proves youre dead wrong. Rugby psychology clearly is not forte

the last game of the pool agst Trevise was a dead rubber yet Montpellier went and got the Bonus point.

now why would a team supposedly with 'no heart' play for a bonus point in a dead rubber?! HELLOO

and the match report shows the last try was scored in the VERY LAST minute while they had the game won without another score (21-6). so clearly they played ALL THE WAY. That shows their commitment. Yet they wanted more. More=Heart

as i said their performance in their pool showed that while Montpellier are not yet a tier1 european team, they have all the qualities to become one. With the talent they have and the squad they are building you'd better pray they dont find even more heart

you're right but Connacht still played a very, very nice game that day. But Toulouse were just elsewhere, granted...even against Zebre the last time out there, Toulouse looked like they were just messing around. I don't think it's a question of arrogance from Toulouse or lack thereof as you've said, but just insouciance. They keep saying ahead of matches "we can't underestimate this team, we can't fall into that trap..." and then they do exactly and precisely that. It's quite comical at times. Really.

Big Ewis. You know how much I respect your invaluable contributions steeped in your deep knowledge and hard-earned experience of the game gained on countless rugby grounds and that you so elegantly comment from your armchair. However

could I ask you to please remove the Toulouse flag from your profile. Dont ask why. Just do it. Merci d'avance ))

 

[munstermuffin]

here is a point that proves youre dead wrong. Rugby psychology clearly is not forte

the last game of the pool agst Trevise was a dead rubber yet Montpellier went and got the Bonus point.

now why would a team supposedly with 'no heart' play for a bonus point in a dead rubber?! HELLOO

and the match report shows the last try was scored in the VERY LAST minute while they had the game won without another score (21-6). so clearly they played ALL THE WAY. That shows their commitment. Yet they wanted more. More=Heart

as i said their performance in their pool showed that while Montpellier are not yet a tier1 european team, they have all the qualities to become one. With the talent they have and the squad they are building you'd better pray they dont find even more heart

Have you seen Treviso lately??? Bonus points against them isn't exactly hard and well doesn't back up your point at all. It's easy to play against a vastly lesser team and could be argued fact they actually didn't get BP until last minute shows they didn't care.
And well I'd pray they find some heart for European rugby because they did nothing to show heart or interest and their 2 home results against Leicester and Ulster show that. They're not a tier 1 team and never will be unless they get attitude and heart in my eyes

 

[FrenchFan]

Have you seen Treviso lately??? Bonus points against them isn't exactly hard and well doesn't back up your point at all. It's easy to play against a vastly lesser team and could be argued fact they actually didn't get BP until last minute shows they didn't care.
And well I'd pray they find some heart for European rugby because they did nothing to show heart or interest and their 2 home results against Leicester and Ulster show that. They're not a tier 1 team and never will be unless they get attitude and heart in my eyes

Ive just said that Montpellier are not YET a tier 1 side before your post. Have you problem deciphering yoru own language. And Im not judging Trevise, Im talking about Montpellier's attitude. Agst weaker opposition and in a dead rubber they could have taken their foot off the pedal and not turned up. The match report shows that they did and contradicts your views. You can't back up your statment that they have no attitude blabla. They lost by 1 pt agst Leicester at home after 14 (fourteen) changes in the same week. Ulster couldn't make that many changes and still be competitive.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ive just said that Montpellier are not YET a tier 1 side before your post. Have you problem deciphering yoru own language. And Im not judging Trevise, Im talking about Montpellier's attitude. Agst weaker opposition and in a dead rubber they could have taken their foot off the pedal and not turned up. The match report shows that they did and contradicts your views. You can't back up your statment that they have no attitude blabla. They lost by 1 pt agst Leicester at home after 14 (fourteen) changes in the same week. Ulster couldn't make that many changes and still be competitive.

No but I'd say your English isn't best as I said also they aren't or won't be ever without heart or interest. Montpellier had a **** poor attitude in Heineken cup and were heartless not even trying. Against a lot worst opposition at home that is bad. You can argue but all them changes regardless ye were heartless and bad against Ulster and Leicester. Funny thing is Ulster and Leicester haven't budget ye do but if they made 14 changes to play Treviso at home they would be better than ye. But as you say ye made 14 changes to play Treviso at home and that is mean feat. Please results don't lie and ye were poor. And for what it's worth Ulster are well able to rotate squad and probably do it hell of a lot better on lesser money. But maybe stop reading reports and watch games too rugby not bad to watch

 

[FrenchFan]

No but I'd say your English isn't best as I said also they aren't or won't be ever without heart or interest. Montpellier had a **** poor attitude in Heineken cup and were heartless not even trying. Against a lot worst opposition at home that is bad. You can argue but all them changes regardless ye were heartless and bad against Ulster and Leicester. Funny thing is Ulster and Leicester haven't budget ye do but if they made 14 changes to play Treviso at home they would be better than ye. But as you say ye made 14 changes to play Treviso at home and that is mean feat. Please results don't lie and ye were poor. And for what it's worth Ulster are well able to rotate squad and probably do it hell of a lot better on lesser money. But maybe stop reading reports and watch games too rugby not bad to watch

this is getting funny. You dont know if Ulster made 14 changes they would be better. That has not happened. You are talking about something that didnt happen. Please talk facts. You are just rehashing the same ****e without backing anything. Match facts I have stated contradict your view.
NO they made 14 changes to play LEICESTER not Trevise. This is what I said, not only you cant get your facts right, but you cant read your own language.

Talking about that game btw Leicester vs Montpellier. Even the Guardian in his report can't question Montpellier's attitude.

quote : "Montpellier also showed plenty of commitment as the intensity mounted (...)"

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/15/leicester-montpellier-heineken-cup-match-report

well i dont know where they get that kind of commitment.......olive oil maybe?

why let facts get in the way of your brilliant appraisal of a rugby side hey?!

 

[Big Ewis]

Big Ewis. You know how much I respect your invaluable contributions steeped in your deep knowledge and hard-earned experience of the game gained on countless rugby grounds and that you so elegantly comment from your armchair. However

could I ask you to please remove the Toulouse flag from your profile. Dont ask why. Just do it. Merci d'avance ))

There. Now this is here to stay.
I'm always amazed at gratuitous vehemence from people I've done no wrong to, it's beyond me, so I just want to keep a proof of how infinitely small-minded your posts are.

Good luck with this fool TRF, wheewww-ee !!..

 

[munstermuffin]

this is getting funny. You dont know if Ulster made 14 changes they would be better. That has not happened. You are talking about something that didnt happen. Please talk facts. You are just rehashing the same ****e without backing anything. Match facts I have stated contradict your view.
NO they made 14 changes to play LEICESTER not Trevise. This is what I said, not only you cant get your facts right, but you cant read your own language.

Talking about that game btw Leicester vs Montpellier. Even the Guardian in his report can't question Montpellier's attitude.

quote : "Montpellier also showed plenty of commitment as the intensity mounted (...)"

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/15/leicester-montpellier-heineken-cup-match-report

well i dont know where they get that kind of commitment.......olive oil maybe?

why let facts get in the way of your brilliant appraisal of a rugby side hey?!

Facts put - Ulster make 10,12 changes in Rabo and do fine. Yes ye made great changes knowing ye are playing Treviso. Others don't as they aren't arrogant towards Treviso and put best team out as Europe means something. In 3 years Montpellier have 3 wins away from home in HEC against a poor Sale team a Cardiff team in dissaray and Treviso. Never beaten an Irish or Scottish team. For me they are a poor heartless team any their record of 8 wins out of 19 games says enough. As I said I will take them serious when they produce heart and results. Clermont Toulouse and Toulon do it

 

[FrenchFan]

There. Now this is here to stay.
I'm always amazed at gratuitous vehemence from people I've done no wrong to, it's beyond me, so I just want to keep a proof of how infinitely small-minded your posts are.

Good luck with this fool TRF, wheewww-ee !!..

its ok Big Ewis. I was just taking the ****. Will you get over it? You can keep that flag <_<

 

[FrenchFan]

There. Now this is here to stay.
I'm always amazed at gratuitous vehemence from people I've done no wrong to, it's beyond me, so I just want to keep a proof of how infinitely small-minded your posts are.

Good luck with this fool TRF, wheewww-ee !!..

Non non my posts are engaging . Its just that i've played the game & coached and have different views. But if you find them small-minded thats ok. They fit right in then.

 

[Big Ewis]

FrenchFan will you pleaaaase stop double-posting man ? Think of the poor mods who have to bear your presence AND clean up after you.