• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Graham Henry on 2007 RWC Match Fixing

I've only watched this test once (as it happened) - were there clear (and I mean clear) penalties that France weren't pinged for?
Seems like it's the kind of thing that there'd be youtube clips for and the such (as there were/are for other matches with dubious decisions).
Obviously there's the forwards pass, but people are going on about France not getting pinged for an age despite having no possession - maybe they were just disciplined? I watched a match recently (well, towards the end of the AP season) where neither side picked up a penalty until well in to the 2nd half (50+ mins in to the game).
 
I've only watched this test once (as it happened) - were there clear (and I mean clear) penalties that France weren't pinged for?
Seems like it's the kind of thing that there'd be youtube clips for and the such (as there were/are for other matches with dubious decisions).
Obviously there's the forwards pass, but people are going on about France not getting pinged for an age despite having no possession - maybe they were just disciplined? I watched a match recently (well, towards the end of the AP season) where neither side picked up a penalty until well in to the 2nd half (50+ mins in to the game).

Someone will post the link to some analysis which showed numerous penalty offences (e.g. offsides, hands in rucks etc). France have never before only conceded 2 penalties in a test, and for them to do so (with zero in the last 60mins) with no possession or territory against one of the top teams in the world seems a bit unrealistic doesn't it? I'm extremely sceptical about match fixing, it was just inexperience and nerves I reckon. Either way he had an absolute shocker of a display and the people that don't acknowledge it just prefer to have a pop at the AB's than to just admit he was shite.

I don't think most have gone back to watch it and see what we are all complaining about, if you did you'd realise it really was a poor display. Again, not excusing our loss we had chances regardless of the ref.
 
I've only watched this test once (as it happened) - were there clear (and I mean clear) penalties that France weren't pinged for?
Seems like it's the kind of thing that there'd be youtube clips for and the such (as there were/are for other matches with dubious decisions).
Obviously there's the forwards pass, but people are going on about France not getting pinged for an age despite having no possession - maybe they were just disciplined? I watched a match recently (well, towards the end of the AP season) where neither side picked up a penalty until well in to the 2nd half (50+ mins in to the game).

My recollection of the game was that France were not very disciplined. I mean in any game you could probably look back retrospectively and pick out numerous penalty offences at the breakdown. I don't really wish to go through the game and look at every breakdown to determine what should and shouldn't have been a penalty. It wasn't great memories for me. So yes I think Barnes was exceptionally lenient on France in that game. Maybe I would have a different view if I watched it now.
 
No non NZer will agree with the view that we were hard done by, regardless of the situation. I mean the French gave away only 2 penalties while having only 30% of the ball, but nobody will admit that is ridiculous. Easier to label us chokers or whatever. If in place of NZ, it was an underdog e.g. Argentina I'm sure the neutrals would find it much more comfortable to admit the ref was one sided and rubbish.

Also, the ref being horrible is a different issue to us losing. I agree with Teh Mite and the others that we still should have had a better go at winning it by drop goal. We can blame ourselves for the loss because we had a few chances and didn't take them. But please admit the ref was horrendous.
Yep pretty much.

Though, if anything, the Saffers will (should) be our closest sympathisers regarding referee F'ups in RWCs.
 
I thought that game was refereed pretty fairly tbh. True I'm a New Zealander.

As for 2007, there is no doubt the referee had a huge impact on that game. Let's be honest - if it was refereed fairly then we would have won. I don't believe that is biased or conjecture but rather the facts of the situation. People go on about the forward pass but I can get over that. I can accept that a referee and his assistants are not going to see anything. It could well be that they all happen to not be looking when the pass is made. I can get over that as angry as I was at the time. It is far harder to get over not getting a penalty for 60 minutes which suggests that the referee has missed a lot. France infringing 40 times in that period is hyperbole but they did infringe plenty of times in front of the referee and were not called for it. There was also a time when we dominated the scrum and France were given the ball back. Plenty of other examples I could think of.

Now that is not to suggest that the refereeing was the sole reason we lost. The tactics were absolutely appalling. Rotation did not work and neither did rest. We had horrible injuries, we didn't take a drop kick when we should have and the French came at us hard. Was there match fixing involved? Very unlikely. There is no evidence to suggest match fixing at all. Rather I think that a young and inexperienced referee was given a game he had no business of having. The pressure was great and he reacted poorly to that pressure. I suggest people read Henry's book to find out exactly what he said rather than rely on media reports. I don't think match fixing allegations does Henry's reputation any good. He has sort of hinted at it rather than said it outright.

So I think what Henry said is pretty stupid but I think you need to see the context in full.

I agree with just about all of this. I am a France fan, so I love to turn a blind eye to the 2007 referee, however when looking unbiased there was alot missed. Yet, no matter what, I am a type of player who believes the better team always wins in any sporting contest. Things may go against you on the pitch or against the team you are for, but if they are good enough they will find a way to win. I did not have a problem with the 2011 final, the game was close and if we were good enough we would have found a way to win it, but we didnt. 2007 was also a close game, and no matter all the things that went against the ABs, they still had a chance to win it, but they didnt. It's a pretty simple way to look at life, but has helped keep me calm during some pretty rough sporting events.
 
Ted is a man does not pander to snobs, the politically correct or those who are afraid to say what they really think. During his time as the Headmaster of Auckland Grammar, the boys were given no favours for who they were (or who their parents were). He was only interested in what they they could achieve, and how hard they were prepared to work to achieve it. Like a lot of Kiwis, he will say what he thinks, and not give monkeys whose feelings might be injured, or toes might be trod on in saying it. He doesn't call a spade a spade, he calls it a shovel!!!

Far too much is being made of his comment re: match fixing, but once again, true to form, the media have taken what he wrote completely out of context and have blown it out of all proportion. Those who have not read his book (I have) might be better to read it first before indulging in idle, ill-informed and misguided speculation based entirely on the ******** that has been quoted in the media about what he said.

Here is the quote direct from the book, my emphasis

" (I) briefly contemplated match-fixing as the only logical explanationâ€

The truth is he does not think that now, but the media are either too stupid to understand what "briefly" means, or they deliberately ignore that part of the quote so that they can sell papers -- I suspect the latter.

IMO, this is the right time for him to put his feelings and perceptions in print. He has now won a world cup, and has retired from the game; there is no unfinished business. I find it refreshing to read a sports biography that doesn't gloss over the uncomfortable issues and sweep the controversial things under the rug. He is telling HIS story, the way HE sees it, and I applaud him for doing so without fear or favour.

Technically, his analysis of the 2007 quarter-final is right on the money. It was extraordinary (and unprecedented) that a team who spent three quarters of the last 50 minutes of a match defending, much of it within their own 22, could do so without being penalised even once. Not even a free kick or an advantage call. Ted's suggestion that Wayne Barnes was too inexperienced to be refereeing a match of that magnitude, and that he essentially folded under pressure, was also correct. It was clear and obvious to ANYONE watching the game that he was refereeing only one side, and completely ignoring material offences by the French that were occurring right in front of him. The parallels between that match and Bryce Lawrence's abysmal effort in the Australia v South Africa quarter final in 2011 are remarkable; but at least Bryce had the courage and fortitude to fess-up after the game and admit how badly he got it wrong.

Bob Francis, one of the selectors who picked Wayne Barnes for that match agreed in a radio interview this morning that, in hindsight, it was a mistake to select such an inexperienced referee for such an important fixture, when there were far more experienced referees available, e.g. Chris White, who was not appointed to referee any play-off matches in spite of his vast experience as an international referee. Instead, he was posted to the TMO Box. What were they thinking??

Having said all that, Ted and his team didn't have the Plan B they should have had, and if they had, then this whole issue would never have arisen. However, this does not negate the fact the Wayne Barnes should never have been thrown in at the deep end the way he was. He was selected for the RWC2007 panel in only his first year as an international referee and with with only three tests to his name, and only one of those was a test between traditional test playing nations. . This was unprecedented, and is a position that the iRB clearly did not allow any referees to be put in at the 2011 event.

It is highly unlikely that they will ever make that particular mistake again.
 
Ok we bought the match in 2007. We also tried to buy the match in 2011, but this time the New Zealanders had more money than us.
 
A non-story if you ask me. Every one of us Bok fans briefly (and some of us not so much briefly as steadfastly) considered match-fixing after our RWC 2011 exit. Both were games where a LOT of mistakes were made by the referee; so much more than is normal that one tends to consider ALL POSSIBLE angles.
 
Barnes was poor, so were NZ.

Most refs are poor, but its not all there fault. One man has to watch what 30 (or more if theres a welsh team involved) blokes get up to at all times with not enough help from the sidelines.

I dont think Barnes should have been in charge in 2007 but NZ should realy avoid complaining when teams get away with stuff.. its worked in your favour many times... keep your heads down or refs might start to look twice.
 
Doubtful, some names are untouchable akin to Ferrari in F1 in that respect; All Blacks, Munster, Leinster, Wasps, Leicester, Bath & England immeteately spring to mind.

All teams are equal, but some are a bit more equal then the rest.
 
Doubtful, some names are untouchable akin to Ferrari in F1 in that respect; All Blacks, Munster, Leinster, Wasps, Leicester, Bath & England immeteately spring to mind.

All teams are equal, but some are a bit more equal then the rest.
:wah::wah::wah: No one loves Northampton.
 
Even the locals are none too fond of it. Shite town centre and more ferral chavs per capita then Ireland.
 
Last edited:
All teams are equal, but some are a bit more equal then the rest.

So true...
Like a french humorist said: Every people are equals, white or black, tall or small, beautiful or ugly...but it will be hard. And for the small, black and ugly it will be very hard...
 
It makes last year's one point win even sweeter the way the French won 2007. :D Because it made the French think they had a chance, only for our hapless 4th string first-five to dash any hopes.

Had we won and smashed them (like we did in the pool game); they would've been like "c'est la vie" (or whatever else French people say or wave - white flags and that :lol:). But to look like they had the opportunity and then lose, even sweeter revenge


8-7 - Thanks guys.
;)
 
Humble humility in victory, that most endearing of traits...
 
I love how humble the New Zealanders are when it comes to rugby.
 
New Zealand could learn something about winning with style from Leinster. We're classy modest feckers.
 

Latest posts

Top