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France v Wales, 09/02/13

^

but then...not a great achievement considering France's level, and not a great sign for future 6N matches and beyond given Wales' level during the match...intensity was there, some okay plays, but generally so uneven and such a lack of control for both sides...


Neither team was that dreadful, people are sensationalising it. I have to agree that both sides were under par in terms of attacking and creativity, but I'd argue that both teams improved themselves from last week. Particularly France, as they level was quite shocking last week and at least Wales righted quite a few wrongs in the second half against Ireland (after an even more shocking first half). I agree that the intensity was a definite improvement for both sides, but that there was a lack of control. However I'd put that mainly down to the pretty extreme pressure which both sides are/were under, considering Wales's terrible form and France's shock defeat to Italy, and the terrible condition of the pitch which made proper, controlled scrummaging and fluid attacks extremely difficult and would be for most sides. I think on that performance Wales will be happy going into next week and beyond. Sure we need to improve, but let's be honest; in the tournament so far Wales had one very bad half against Ireland, came out in the second half and did the best that any reasonable person could ask for, played in Paris and won a high-pressure game which was always going to be dictated by the forwards/defence against a tough French team. So it was always going to be a dirt win, for either team. Put today's defensive/kicking/lineout game together with the attacking/rucking game of the second half last week and you have a pretty formidable Welsh performance just waiting to be unleashed.

I must say though that I'm glad that France didn't start Parra, when he's firing he's world class, Bastareaud worried me at times too.

Also Halfpenny is Wales's best player hands down at the moment, the epitome of commitment, there were some very good individual performances in the forwards from 4-8 today, but plenty to work on for next week for sure.
 
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Neither team was that dreadful, people are sensationalising it. I have to agree that both sides were under par in terms of attacking and creativity, but I'd argue that both teams improved themselves from last week. Particularly France, as they level was quite shocking last week and at least Wales righted quite a few wrongs in the second half against Ireland (after an even more shocking first half). I agree that the intensity was a definite improvement for both sides, but that there was a lack of control. However I'd put that mainly down to the pretty extreme pressure which both sides are/were under, considering Wales's terrible form and France's shock defeat to Italy, and the terrible condition of the pitch which made proper, controlled scrummaging and fluid attacks extremely difficult and would be for most sides. I think on that performance Wales will be happy going into next week and beyond. Sure we need to improve, but let's be honest; in the tournament so far Wales had one very bad half against Ireland, came out in the second half and did the best that any reasonable person could ask for, played in Paris and won a high-pressure game which was always going to be dictated by the forwards/defence against a tough French team. So it was always going to be a dirt win, for either team. Put today's defensive/kicking/lineout game together with the attacking/rucking game of the second half last week and you have a pretty formidable Welsh performance just waiting to be unleashed.

I must say though that I'm glad that France didn't start Parra, when he's firing he's world class, Bastareaud worried me at times too.

Also Halfpenny is Wales's best player hands down at the moment, the epitome of commitment, there were some very good individual performances in the forwards from 4-8 today, but plenty to work on for next week for sure.

I think You are saying a lot of good things from a neutral perspective (or a welsh perspective)...but from a french Perspective, whats left after these 2 first matches ??
 
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Halfpenny has just about got the Lions 15 shirt in the bag, and he will have earned every minute in it.
 
Halfpenny has just about got the Lions 15 shirt in the bag, and he will have earned every minute in it.

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This game was always going to be a tense affair. Both teams needed to prove themselves in the face of some heavy criticism.

I don't particularly care that Wales didn't play with much flair or creativity. I think all of that will come now that their confidence has started to be rebuilt. They didn't want to attempt anything risky against France because they knew that one slip-up could cost them the game, and that they would end up bottom of table.

Ryan Jones was immense, he would have been my man of the match without a doubt. That kick he took to the French 22 touchline was superb for a back row forward. And Warburton isn't getting back in that squad any time soon, with the way Tipuric played.

Still not entirely sure about Roberts and Davies centre partnership. The balance isn't right. I'd give Hook a run at inside centre against Italy, with Roberts outside him. With Biggar at 10 and Hook at 12 there is two good attacking options at first and second receiver.
 
This game was always going to be a tense affair. Both teams needed to prove themselves in the face of some heavy criticism.

I don't particularly care that Wales didn't play with much flair or creativity. I think all of that will come now that their confidence has started to be rebuilt. They didn't want to attempt anything risky against France because they knew that one slip-up could cost them the game, and that they would end up bottom of table.

Ryan Jones was immense, he would have been my man of the match without a doubt. That kick he took to the French 22 touchline was superb for a back row forward. And Warburton isn't getting back in that squad any time soon, with the way Tipuric played.

Still not entirely sure about Roberts and Davies centre partnership. The balance isn't right. I'd give Hook a run at inside centre against Italy, with Roberts outside him. With Biggar at 10 and Hook at 12 there is two good attacking options at first and second receiver.

Quite right. Today's game reminded me of the Scotland match away in 2011. We were in poor form and had just come off the back of an opening defeat at home to England. We didn't play well, but we ground out the victory with a solid performance and we built again from that.

I absolutely adore Ryan, he was massive. One of my all-time favourite rugby players. Immense.
 
Only saw bits and highlights but to me it seems Warbs is going to have a tough time getting back in, which is awkward being the captain.

Halfpenny, Hogg and Kearney should tour with Halfpenny as front runner ATM.
 
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Once you get rid of that first feeling of disappointment, you have to recognize that if France slightly improved since last week we still play as headless chickens. I expected that loss but in my mind I of course always wish that our famous inconsistentcy will for once turn in our favour, but there's something new with the PSA era, we get consistent in being mediocre, now we are at 4 losses in 6 Six Nations matches.

Winning scrums and line outs is useless if you don't exploit the ball correctly. I see many journalists saying that we didn't take advantage of the turn overs but when you play at home you have to create your own opportunities, stick to your plan - which means you first need to prepare one - and be good on the basics at least. This mean not missing so much tackles, play in opponent's half which can be useful to score some tries, keep the ball and try to gain some ground by playing simple, have the back line entering faster in the rucks where we were consistently dominated.

But can you expect more when you have centers or FH playing on the wing, an inexperienced SH, a slow FH, awful kicking that puts no pressure on the opponent, obvious lack of a tactical leader ?

Winning the remaining matches currently looks beyond our capabilities, especially when you look at the very good match of Scotland yesterday, but anyways that 6N is already over for us. Now we need to pepare the next events, and there's a lot of work to be done...biggest charter is the back row. We need fast players being excellent at cleaning up the rucks, even if we partially lose in physical density.

Let's find other players that will have the capability to adapt to modern rugby, with more pace and endurance. Even if the lack of physical fitness here is the tree that hides the forest (of problems).
 
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Neither team was that dreadful, people are sensationalising it. I have to agree that both sides were under par in terms of attacking and creativity, but I’d argue that both teams improved themselves from last week. Particularly France, as they level was quite shocking last week and at least Wales righted quite a few wrongs in the second half against Ireland (after an even more shocking first half). I agree that the intensity was a definite improvement for both sides, but that there was a lack of control. However I'd put that mainly down to the pretty extreme pressure which both sides are/were under, considering Wales's terrible form and France's shock defeat to Italy, and the terrible condition of the pitch which made proper, controlled scrummaging and fluid attacks extremely difficult and would be for most sides. I think on that performance Wales will be happy going into next week and beyond. Sure we need to improve, but let's be honest; in the tournament so far Wales had one very bad half against Ireland, came out in the second half and did the best that any reasonable person could ask for, played in Paris and won a high-pressure game which was always going to be dictated by the forwards/defence against a tough French team. So it was always going to be a dirt win, for either team. Put today's defensive/kicking/lineout game together with the attacking/rucking game of the second half last week and you have a pretty formidable Welsh performance just waiting to be unleashed.

I must say though that I’m glad that France didn't start Parra, when he's firing he's world class, Bastareaud worried me at times too.

Also Halfpenny is Wales's best player hands down at the moment, the epitome of commitment, there were some very good individual performances in the forwards from 4-8 today, but plenty to work on for next week for sure.

yep, agree with all that. But besides a guy or two (literally) on each team, great intensity (seeing the high stakes, a normal feat) and very strong, conservative defense; there was nothing for either side. It's not sensationalizing or anything, it's just the truth. With an attack like that, Wales will find trouble in Italy next match; they won't score a try, or maybe just one and will be in danger of losing that game.

Bastareaud was really committed on defense, big big hits, really present; and carried well on attack, but like every attack we led, disjointed from the rest of the team, isolated plays, no continuity...
Note: This is the first time we lose our first 2 of the tournament since 1982.
This IS a bigger deal than ppl would think...

Once you get rid of that first feeling of disappointment, you have to recognize that if France slightly improved since last week we still play as headless chickens. I expected that loss but in my mind I of course always wish that our famous inconsistentcy will for once turn in our favour, but there's something new with the PSA era, we get consistent in being mediocre, now we are at 4 losses in 6 Six Nations matches.

Winning scrums and line outs is useless if you don't exploit the ball correctly. I see many journalists saying that we didn't take advantage of the turn overs but when you play at home you have to create your own opportunities, stick to your plan - which means you first need to prepare one - and be good on the basics at least. This mean not missing so much tackles, play in opponent's half which can be useful to score some tries, keep the ball and try to gain some ground by playing simple, have the back line entering faster in the rucks where we were consistently dominated.

But can you expect more when you have centers or FH playing on the wing, an inexperienced SH, a slow FH, awful kicking that puts no pressure on the opponent, obvious lack of a tactical leader ?

Winning the remaining matches currently looks beyond our capabilities, especially when you look at the very good match of Scotland yesterday, but anyways that 6N is already over for us. Now we need to pepare the next events, and there's a lot of work to be done...biggest charter is the back row. We need fast players being excellent at cleaning up the rucks, even if we partially lose in physical density.

Let's find other players that will have the capability to adapt to modern rugby, with more pace and endurance. Even if the lack of physical fitness here is the tree that hides the forest (of problems).

look man, we were a FOKKING MESS. We were far from being a mess in November, and we're lacking some KEY players atm. It's a crisis. How long will it take, what match is our breakthrough ? Don't know. I don't see us winning in Twickenham after this, nobody does, nobody sees France winning there...and if we do lose, depending on how bad, then we can just simply start praying for the rest of the way.
But this is France, and how many times have we dragged ourselves out of deep, deep holes and pulled out the most insane, improbable wins playing incredible rugby out of nowhere ?

Michalak was EXCELLENT just 3 months ago and he looked like he got hit in the head before this match. Machenaud looked very promising, and was mediocre here. As a team, at the breakdown we were down-right SCARY, on attack we had so much fugue and inventivity, scary stuff if you were an Aussie/Arg supporter. And defensively, besides the Italy match we've been EXCELLENT since the Aussie game til yesterday.
We're not a Tier 2 nation yet (or ever for that matter...). We're not getting crushed anywhere any time soon, but we may struggle. Struggle BAAAAD. But all we need is to find our feeling for the match again, run a few nice plays that get our rhythm back...the defense will be there, the kicking's there, the forwards, the ball carriers (Picamoles, Bast, Debatty...)...and once our ATTACK starts flowing just once, I think we get our confidence back and we can surprise the rugby world one more time.
 
Nobody want to start Halfpenny AND Kearney?

The wing options aren't particularly special right now for the Lions.
 
Only Lion so far is Ryan Jones, total legend real test animal and the guy whos head wouldnt drop if he played in the midweek team. Has to be on the plane.
 
Am getting worried by pronouncments from Andre.

He is saying that he is missiing several key players with injuries, that there will be changes, and that the 23 for Twickenham, whom will be announced on Monday, will be available to the clubs until Saturday but not will play Top 14 next weekend......that is all good.

What is not so good is that he is not ruling out players like Harinordoquy................"Perlease" do not go backwards and try and bring past players back. Look at your stupidity of selecting players out of position andothers who should not be playing international rugby in front of better players available

Bringing Imnol etc back is not the way forward and, besides, I would not pick him in the Biarritz back row at present!!
 
Once you get rid of that first feeling of disappointment, you have to recognize that if France slightly improved since last week we still play as headless chickens. I expected that loss but in my mind I of course always wish that our famous inconsistentcy will for once turn in our favour, but there's something new with the PSA era, we get consistent in being mediocre, now we are at 4 losses in 6 Six Nations matches.

Winning scrums and line outs is useless if you don't exploit the ball correctly. I see many journalists saying that we didn't take advantage of the turn overs but when you play at home you have to create your own opportunities, stick to your plan - which means you first need to prepare one - and be good on the basics at least. This mean not missing so much tackles, play in opponent's half which can be useful to score some tries, keep the ball and try to gain some ground by playing simple, have the back line entering faster in the rucks where we were consistently dominated.

But can you expect more when you have centers or FH playing on the wing, an inexperienced SH, a slow FH, awful kicking that puts no pressure on the opponent, obvious lack of a tactical leader ?

Winning the remaining matches currently looks beyond our capabilities, especially when you look at the very good match of Scotland yesterday, but anyways that 6N is already over for us. Now we need to pepare the next events, and there's a lot of work to be done...biggest charter is the back row. We need fast players being excellent at cleaning up the rucks, even if we partially lose in physical density.

Let's find other players that will have the capability to adapt to modern rugby, with more pace and endurance. Even if the lack of physical fitness here is the tree that hides the forest (of problems).

Probably a couple guys could be changed in forward pack: I'm not sure that Forestier is worth starting or even bench place. Also, Quadradrogo. I think France is missing Bonnaire type of player. Quadradrogo seems potential replacement, but he is not in the same level as Bonnaire was. Of course, some could say (yoe91) Nyanga should start, but actually it is either him, or Dusatoir, and personally me and probably 99,99% of people who understand rugby would select Dusatoir.

France play is dead after forwards perform all dirty work and it is because of half-backs. Machenaud was given way too many chances and still has not learned how to control forwards or backs. Also, he does not seem having the same impact as Parra has. Parra constantly shouts and controls forwards even he is probably the smallest player in the field. Parra's distribution is quicker and more dangerous, but there is the second problem - Michalak. He was either too deep, or smoking cigarette on wing. So no playmaker in squad. Probably Michalak has something on PSA as he persist with him in starting line-up. Michalak has almost 50 caps and he still has not proved that he could perform constantly. He was good during autumn internationals, but I think during that time Wilkinson was injured and he played for Toulon, now he is out of form and deserves to be dropped. I will not mention his defence as actually there is no defence. He does not even try to wrap player, just tries a le shoulder charge. Becomes another Beauxis.

Also, PSA absolutely brainless to select Fofana on wing. Mermoz is average at best. Basteraud improved since the last time playing for France and seems a lot of fitter and do not carrying a lot overweight. Fofana probably should play outside him to exploide space as Basteraud takes a couple guys with him. Another crazy selection is Hughet at full-back. He is wing and when plays as a wing, he is dangerous, but he is involved too much in defence and leaves France without full-back, so select natural full-back. Trin-duc is neither full-back. He probably should have stopped North scoring, but he was played out of position and tackling is not best his skill.

Yesterday France seemed like poor old Italy, no control in half-backs division and static backs. Of course, no game plan at all. And PSA should look at mirror, because yesterday not players lost the game, but his selection and game plan.
 
Great win, even if we looked a little shaky at times and out backline barely sparked all game. That was certainly more like it in terms of intensity and defence, and all that mattered yesterday was the result. This could really slingshot our campaign, just as the England win in 2008 did (anyone remember how bad Wales were in the first half of that match?). This should give us the confidence for the next two matches I hope, especially with players returning (AW Jones was immense for the O's after coming on v Ulster, and looks ready to go in two weeks time). With my tongue firmly in my cheek....... winner takes all match on the last weekend between Wales and England?

Regarding individual performances, I also thought Ryan Jones was immense. My man of the match as well. Warburton will find himself on the bench against Italy, and that could spur him into getting his form back. Ian Evans and Tipuric were also great. Jenkins certainly stepped it up another notch, but he's got a few more notches to go, and I hope to see another improvement v Italy. The scrum was hugely disappointing, and I question whether both Hibbard and Adam Jones are fully fit. It's difficult to pinpoint the problem, as it was under pressure on both sides throughout. Needs looking at!

In the backline, Biggar and Halfpenny were the stand-outs. Phillips was Jeckyl and Hyde, great one moment with great defence or a nice break, terrible the next with some shocking passing and atrocious kicking. I still think we need quicker, crisper distribution that Phillips is currently unable to provide. Roberts and Davies were better in defence, but still offered little in attack. North's finish was great, but did little otherwise, and Cuthbert barely got involved. Once again Halfpenny was the epitome of a professional athlete, and he made sure with his wonderful kicking display that we were 10 points clear at the end instead of only being 5 points clear and every Welsh supporter lacking fingernails.

I would go for the following team against Italy in two weeks:

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Richard Hibbard
03 Adam Jones
04 Alun-Wyn Jones
05 Ian Evans
06 Ryan Jones
07 Justin Tipuric
08 Toby Faletau

09 Lloyd Williams
10 Ban Biggar
11 Eli Walker
12 James Hook
13 Jon Davies
14 George North
15 Leigh Halfpenny

16 Ken Owens
17 Paul James
18 Craig Mitchell
19 Andrew Coombs
20 Sam Warburton
21 Mike Phillips
22 Jamie Roberts
23 Alex Cuthbert

Edit. Anyone know when Ashley Beck is due back? Could be another option at 12.
 
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Hey Yoe!! What happened with les blues man?? Things were taken a little bit lightly right? ...mmm. Well just beat english boys at least, and will make much more interesting the tournament.
 
^ pffffffff man, it's terrible. No, it's ridiculous in fact.
I'm hoping on that !...that we'll wake up against England in Twickenham...you know the French way yeah...we're horrible and then we have to be excellent out of nowhere...I'm not sure if it'll happen at all though...I can see France being mediocre the whole tournament, but I also have a gut feeling they'll show smt special soon....
Hey, please send the Pumas to replace France in the 6N man, I think my team needs a vacation in Buenos Aires....
 
I've watched the game back. I'm not an expert at scrum time, but try my best, but it looked as the Gethin was struggling and often letting the TH get over the top of him? He seemed to be losing at the engagement? He really seems to be lacking a bit of form/confidence at the moment.

I'm a massive Gethin fan and I'd still start him against Italy, but the scrummaging is a worry.
 
I've watched the game back. I'm not an expert at scrum time, but try my best, but it looked as the Gethin was struggling and often letting the TH get over the top of him? He seemed to be losing at the engagement? He really seems to be lacking a bit of form/confidence at the moment.

I'm a massive Gethin fan and I'd still start him against Italy, but the scrummaging is a worry.

Again ... (just tired of having to stand up for him)

First two to three scrums he was a shambles, but actually pulled it back for the rest and did a job. Most of the problems were actually coming from Adam Jones's side through a variety of reasons.
 
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I think Gethin needs game time, he seems to be getting better a bit more each game. I think if AWJ comes in the next game it will sure up our scum a little more, and will give Geth more confidence. I agree with Dull's 23 exactly, we need to put out our strongest team but still look to improve and try things out in the backs (Lloyd, Hook and Walker coming in). I think Howley will play it safe though and either keep the same team or just bring in AWJ.
 
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