France tour of New Zealand

[Big Ewis]

Fofana and Picamoles definitely have my respect after watching the 6 Nations. Fofana looks like the only French play who can really create anything and Picamoles is a work horse. I agree though, a lot of New Zealanders are probably still expecting Michalak and Dusautoir to be the stars.

you...watched the 6N this year ?! :lol:
oh boy, you must be absolutely TERRIFIED by France coming to tour this summer....

 

[admartian]

you...watched the 6N this year ?! :lol:
oh boy, you must be absolutely TERRIFIED by France coming to tour this summer....

Based on early NZ super rugby form - yes.
Based on now/recent form - not so much.

Still respect France but no doom and gloom.

 

[psychic duck]

There are plenty of French players with skills equal or better to LeRoux, Kotze & Nakaitaci that should have been picked.

Agree. I don't see these players as hugely better options than Clement Ric, Lapandry or Estebanez or Fall or Poitrenaud. There was no real need to pick them and now Nakaitaci may just get about 3 or 4 caps from the bench and be wasted to international rugby.

How an average player like Adrien Plante makes the squad ahead of Malzieu, Fall, Bonneval or Andreu is also a mystery to me.

Saint-André does point out that all these players are trained in French infrastructures, and will play with all their heart for the blue, white n red...I'd like to know whether Nakaitaci specifically is truly something of a French rugby product...as in, trained there from when he started being a pro...etc..

Nakataici was scouted by Clermont after playing and captaining the Fiji U20 team.

So he was born, raised and learnt to play the game in Fiji and refused to play for their national team last November.

 

[Larksea]

I didn't think Medard was going to make the tour I thought he was injured, Shame Jane is injured, I think Mesard is still having nightmares about marking Jane, or at least still has his hand print on his face

I think Ben Smith can cause him to lose just as much sleep.

The return of BASTAREAUD! That will surely feature in the media.

Lians vs, Digga's is all well and good but this is the series of the year IMO. France have such a good recent history touring NZ and have caused us problems. Like 2008 or when Lomu made his debut. This will mean so much more to Kiwis than another British side touring or even the Tri Nations.

I think ~4 weeks ago the Idea of a french side touring would have been a scary prospect for kiwis but our rugby seems to be coming right, our super rugby sides are winning again, dan Carter is back from leave and in form, Kieran Read is back from injury and surely will be back in form after a fame or so if super rugby and like it or not some other players who may not have heaps of selection pressure that may have been under performing a bit will come out of their shells with Black Uniforms on.

 

[Draggs]

Last minute drop from Freddie to win.
Come on lad, we know you can do it!

 

[Big Ewis]

How an average player like Adrien Plante makes the squad ahead of Malzieu, Fall, Bonneval or Andreu is also a mystery to me.

Fall's definitely int'l caliber, and I agree I think Malzieu is overlooked often...seemingly more so during the PSA era.

Nakataici was scouted by Clermont after playing and captaining the Fiji U20 team.

So he was born, raised and learnt to play the game in Fiji and refused to play for their national team last November.

oh ok...thanks. So according to what you're saying, I disagree with France's ability to pick him. Unless there's more light shed on its justification in the next few weeks/months (because they will def. get back to it at some point), it's unfair. We get to use Fijian athletic genes for our side, illegitimately. And he plays for us basically because Fiji is complete utter **** these days, the kind to get disintegrated by Ireland A, and would obviously rather play for France....does he even speak fluent French ?! Anybody ?

 

[nickdnz]

Agree. I don't see these players as hugely better options than Clement Ric, Lapandry or Estebanez or Fall or Poitrenaud. There was no real need to pick them and now Nakaitaci may just get about 3 or 4 caps from the bench and be wasted to international rugby.

How an average player like Adrien Plante makes the squad ahead of Malzieu, Fall, Bonneval or Andreu is also a mystery to me.

Nakataici was scouted by Clermont after playing and captaining the Fiji U20 team.

So he was born, raised and learnt to play the game in Fiji and refused to play for their national team last November.

Why Andreu isn't massive in France (despite his tiny stature) is beyond me. Haven't seen his form this season to be fair - but four the last four or so seasons he's looked like the most exciting French wing since Heymans and Dominici.

Not to be a dick - but I can totally see why Nakataici would rather play for France. It may not seem fair to Fiji - but France is generally a lot more stable/less scary country where he may well want to live the rest of his life. Is it poaching? Perhaps - but I don't think any nation has pocession of its citizens and in his situation I may well do the same thing - especially if I saw myself living the rest of my life in France.

Will be a shame if he does only get a few caps - but I'm sure he realizes that's the situation and if hes willing to make that commitment for that reward then I think fair play to him.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Why Andreu isn't massive in France (despite his tiny stature) is beyond me. Haven't seen his form this season to be fair - but four the last four or so seasons he's looked like the most exciting French wing since Heymans and Dominici.

Not to be a dick - but I can totally see why Nakataici would rather play for France. It may not seem fair to Fiji - but France is generally a lot more stable/less scary country where he may well want to live the rest of his life. Is it poaching? Perhaps - but I don't think any nation has pocession of its citizens and in his situation I may well do the same thing - especially if I saw myself living the rest of my life in France.

Will be a shame if he does only get a few caps - but I'm sure he realizes that's the situation and if hes willing to make that commitment for that reward then I think fair play to him.

He's been outstanding, this season more than before. I agree with you that he should play for France more often. I think that PSA has some kind of "quota" for small wingers, and he filled it with Palisson (who, to be fair, has also been outstanding this season).
Next season he will be playing for Racing, which will surely help his France options, as playing for Castres is seen as very "unfashionable" for some reason.

 

[Big Ewis]

Not to be a dick - but I can totally see why Nakataici would rather play for France. It may not seem fair to Fiji - but France is generally a lot more stable/less scary country where he may well want to live the rest of his life. Is it poaching? Perhaps - but I don't think any nation has pocession of its citizens and in his situation I may well do the same thing - especially if I saw myself living the rest of my life in France.

Will be a shame if he does only get a few caps - but I'm sure he realizes that's the situation and if hes willing to make that commitment for that reward then I think fair play to him.

Right, but it's still unfair if he's born and raised and trained elsewhere. I'm by NO MEANS a soccer/football fan, but Zidane is a french footballer because he was trained in France. He's a French professional athlete, not someone we bought off from Algeria coz he's good. Arabs don't understand that, they say "no no no he's arabic ! he's algerian !" coz they're fallacious dumbasses obviously...

Because he's so young, and the only pro ball he's ever played is French all the way (ASM Clermont and France in a month) I'm semi-okay with it; but just imagine if this occurrence gets blown out of proportion, France or other nations (NZ included) could turn into the Fiji national rugby union team in about another 2-3 years of recruiting, by the time we hit the RWC 2015 !...of course I exaggerate, but point's made.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Actually, Clermont have an academy in Fiji. It's sort of institutionalized poaching. Though on the other hand, you could argue that he is actually a product of French formation (he qualifies as "Joueur issu de la formation française", or JIFF, a status that at least 50% of the players in every team's squad must have).

 

[Larksea]

bring back Chabal

 

[ratsapprentice]

Actually, Clermont have an academy in Fiji. It's sort of institutionalized poaching.

Really? That's pretty shocking, if true...

 

[KAPman]

Agree with you there. Michalak looks the likely first choice 10, but if he docks it up like he did in the 6 nations, he has to go. I'd like to see Lopez given a chance at 10, seen a bit of him for Bordueax and looks a tidy 10, can kick, pass, play whats in front of him. Michalak is too much of a liability. He can have moments of individual brilliance, but his control, distribution and defence are not up-to-scratch for a 10 and the all blacks will target him where possible.

I think PSA needs to look at the captaincy, cause while Dusautior has a great work rate and is a very consistant performer, he clearly doesn't have this aura around him that the rest of his team look to. He continues to play a lone figure and do his job when things are not going his teams way. the rest of the team don't always follow his example and or play with the same desire (Picamoles the exception). Picamoles a possible France future captain?

i think the picking of foreign resendancy-qualified players is a good example of the state French rugby is in, with the amount of foreigners playing in the top 14. The Top 14 is rugbys equivalent of the English Premiership in football at the moment. French rugby needs to set some guidelines on a set number of French players playing in their club teams from week-to-week

 

[Big Ewis]

Actually, Clermont have an academy in Fiji. It's sort of institutionalized poaching. Though on the other hand, you could argue that he is actually a product of French formation (he qualifies as "Joueur issu de la formation française", or JIFF, a status that at least 50% of the players in every team's squad must have).

k thx, didn't know that...could you elaborate a little on how he's a product of French training ? Like, in what quality in tangible terms ?

bring back Chabal

yes please.

I think PSA needs to look at the captaincy, cause while Dusautior has a great work rate and is a very consistant performer, he clearly doesn't have this aura around him that the rest of his team look to. He continues to play a lone figure and do his job when things are not going his teams way. the rest of the team don't always follow his example and or play with the same desire (Picamoles the exception). Picamoles a possible France future captain?

I dunno if he can captain a team, as in has the psychological attributes for it and the charisma....and hey dude, triple posting they're gonna kill you !

 

[erwanseb]

He is qualified as JIFF for sure. As for the academy, it is more like a kind of partnership. They have a deal with Nadroga.
http://ebusinessfiji.com/cmss/index...with-clermont&catid=20:local-sports&Itemid=96
Clermont has also financed a full training week in France for Fiji U20 outside of IRB window.
With a salary cap of 9.5 million euros and a budget of 27 million, they do have a lot of money to spend.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

k thx, didn't know that...could you elaborate a little on how he's a product of French training ? Like, in what quality in tangible terms ?

For the FFR, a player is considered a JIFF if one of the two following:
- He has spent at least three seasons (not necessarily consecutive) in an FFR/LNR/Ministry of sports approuved academy before his 21st birthday.
- He has held an FFR licence for at least five seasons (not necessarily consecutive) up to his "espoirs" season. The "espoirs" season is the season in which a player turns 23 years old.

Having quota or rules depending on nationality (or, more precisely, national team allegiance) is against European law.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ thanks man...and okay, fair enough.
I mean NZ has benefited from excellent quality Fijian muscle for generations, just because they're in the vicinity. France being in Europe changes nothing in that regard.

Okay, I'm good with that criteria..as long as it isn't abused, like, we get 10 more Fijians or wtvr the next generation just waiting to artificially make them French...
the fact that it's so closely related to youth is very positive for me, very convincing.

Imagine some All-Black who's played 10 years for NZ who becomes French at 35 and plays for us.

 

[cardassian]

NZ promising a more expansive game plan.
http://tvnz.co.nz/all-blacks/carter-up-ante-abs-attack-5444261

 

[Big Ewis]

the cool thing about getting beaten the crap out by NZ is at least you get to see your side get smashed with class. Yeah we're taking big poles up the ass, but we get to see some amazing tries...

God bless All-Black Rugby, some of the prettiest stuff for the eyes in all of sports...but unfortunately we're enemies on three nights in June !

Oh and they say geniuses are a bit crazy, well Carter looks clinically insane on that vid guys XD

"AB's to play more expansive game" ?!! Like what, they'll start passing the ball so wide they'll have planned receivers in the crowd ?! What the hell does it mean, "AB's to play even more expansive" ?!

 

[sifplay]

the cool thing about getting beaten the crap out by NZ is at least you get to see your side get smashed with class. Yeah we're taking big poles up the ass, but we get to see some amazing tries...

God bless All-Black Rugby, some of the prettiest stuff for the eyes in all of sports...but unfortunately we're enemies on three nights in June !

Oh and they say geniuses are a bit crazy, well Carter looks clinically insane on that vid guys XD

"AB's to play more expansive game" ?!! Like what, they'll start passing the ball so wide they'll have planned receivers in the crowd ?! What the hell does it mean, "AB's to play even more expansive" ?!

New Zealand won the 2011 Rugby World Cup because they did three things really well. First, they used the ball in their "Exit Zone" before launching their kick chase team.

Second, they were ruthlessly efficient at building pressure in the "General Play Zone".

Third, they were deadly with their execution and play selection in the "Red Zone".

This momentum pattern was designed to exhaust the defence and create kick and run options to exploit space.

From the lineout (middle ball), the ball is moved into midfield with 12 taking it up.

From the next ruck, they go the same way with a miss pass to 13 who takes the ball into the next ruck (to the sidelines)
with support from the other three forwards.

From the third ruck, the ball moves back infield. If the defence is tight, then he takes the ball wide, or if they are spread he goes for another ruck with the forwards. The 10 can either pass or kick into space with nearly all his backs and key runners on their feet.

People are confusing expansive with correct tactics