Four in frame for Lions captaincy

[Sir Speedy]

I'm actually surprised there's a debate on this.

If O'Connell captained Ireland this year then they wouldn't have won the Grand Slam. That's how I view it at least. BOD was the best player in the Six Nations, and his lead-by-example attitude was inspiring for his team. Obviously other factors contributed to the Grand Slam but for God's sake he took on the responsibility, and he delivered and then-some. I don't think there was an aspect of his game that was below excellent throughout.

Ryan Jones isn't going to be captain. He's not going to start for, let alone lead the Lions.
Alun Wyn-Jones? Too inexperienced. When he played as captain against Italy he was poor, and so were Wales. Needs to get more experience in that role before being shoved into the frying pan.

O'Connell? He should be vice-captain if BOD were to get another 'unfortunate injury' on the tour.

 

[dullonien]

All of that can also apply to POC aswell. He was consistently awesome throughout and was probably the standout player v Wales in THE crunch game (though O'Driscoll didn't shy away either!). My choice of POC mainly comes down to my personal views that captains should mainly come from the pack where the games won or lost.

Edit: sorry for the appalling structure of this post.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

I think the Lions need POC at the helm more than they need BOD....ultimately it means nothing in the grand scheme of things, Geech probably prefers BOD.

 

[Count of Devonshire]

Couple of chaps down the social earlier were insistent that Vickery was a decent shout.

Apart from the fact that he is far from assured of a first team place, McGeechan knows him from Wasps, he's an experienced head who's won plenty of times against the Boks, a forward (which works in his favour over O'Driscoll), he's led a ramshack England side to a WC Final, is literate and can hold a conversation with the media (unlike O'Connell, perhaps). I was not majestically convinced. The old chap needs to play beyond the 60 minute, and at his age he really should be listening to referees a bit more. Though if he could do that then he'd be in my Lions XV every time, in which case I can certainly see the argument!

I would still plump for O'Driscoll as captain, with O'Connell the 'pack leader' or whatever they like to call that role.

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Mar 30 2009, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Couple of chaps down the social earlier were insistent that Vickery was a decent shout.

Apart from the fact that he is far from assured of a first team place, McGeechan knows him from Wasps, he's an experienced head who's won plenty of times against the Boks, a forward (which works in his favour over O'Driscoll), he's led a ramshack England side to a WC Final, is literate and can hold a conversation with the media (unlike O'Connell, perhaps). I was not majestically convinced. The old chap needs to play beyond the 60 minute, and at his age he really should be listening to referees a bit more. Though if he could do that then he'd be in my Lions XV every time, in which case I can certainly see the argument!

I would still plump for O'Driscoll as captain, with O'Connell the 'pack leader' or whatever they like to call that role.[/b]

I don't think Vickery's form since the world cup warrants him a place on the tour personally, and as you say, should he be selected he may not even command a starting spot when it would be very easy to put forward a case that Murray and Adam Jones a nowadays superior scrummagers and Adam Jones gives you more around the park in defense and turnover ball.

The "Hairbear bunch" are famous at the ospreys for being as talented at playing in the Center 3/4s as they are in the front row.

Although i personally disagree, but many especially "the MUNSTERS" Irishman hold John Hayes highly, personally i think he cant scrum his weight, does to little in loose play, doesn't carry the way a man of his stature should, and for the 12 years he has been playing top flight rugby he hasn't shown a reason why he should be irelands choice tight head other than his lifting in the line out.

 

[An Tarbh]

because of his defence work, his work in clearing out the rucks and his scrummaging has come on in leaps and bounds, had no issue with any of his oponents in the championship this year or last year either.

 

[ChiefsFan]

Who captained the Irish this year? Sorry to be so ignorant, but I never really bothered to check.

From a Southern Hemisphere perspective, I think BOD would be the better option. He always keeps a cool head, even when the team is down, and I think POC can get a bit iffy if the team's losing and he's not playing well.

 

[An Tarbh]

was O'Driscoll but the thinking is, at least if Telfer is to be taken at face value that they'll go for O'Connell with O'Callaghan lining up alongside him.

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 31 2009, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

was O'Driscoll but the thinking is, at least if Telfer is to be taken at face value that they'll go for O'Connell with O'Callaghan lining up alongside him.[/b]

donker O'Callaghan

are you kidding he is an idiot

i would be surprised if he tours

POC's partners are going to be from a selection of:

Nathan Hines
Nick Kennedy
Alun Wyn Jones

Donker, jesus Taurus, would love to see your stats that back that up ???

 

[MunsterMan]

Donnacha O'Callaghan is one of the top locks in the World Gimley, he gave away a penalty against Wales for taunting Phillips, despite Jones getting away with precisely the same thing right in front of good old WB minutes later, so he would be luck to tour?

What do you judge Locks on? Lineout? Workrate? Tackling? Carrying? Ticks all the boxes.

 

[durbutter]

he was referring to the opinion of Jim Telfer;

undefined

dunners has a bad record with discipline,but maybe his partnership of connell will compensate for this.

 

[dullonien]

Nah, Alun-Wyn Jones will probably parter O'Connell, with Nick Kennedy, O'Callaghan, Ian Gough and Hines all touring also.

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 1 2009, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Donnacha O'Callaghan is one of the top locks in the World Gimley, he gave away a penalty against Wales for taunting Phillips, despite Jones getting away with precisely the same thing right in front of good old WB minutes later, so he would be luck to tour?

What do you judge Locks on? Lineout? Workrate? Tackling? Carrying? Ticks all the boxes.[/b]

Yes I would say

Lineout Hines Kennedy Jones

Workrate AW Jones by a few miles

Tackling Donker and Jones are very good

Carrying Hines Donkers and Jones

Winning Turnovers AW Jones

Not Giving Away Penalties the Tauran for the stats but at a rough guess from watching a lot of Munster rugby over

the years i would put a bet on Donker giving a few a few more than even the English


My mates sign off is

"Irish by birtd an munster by the unfortunate incident that de roadz was closed...!"

 

[MunsterMan]

Your posts are hard to read mate, and thanks for making it clear that is just an anti Munster thing. Fact is, O'Callaghan has done nothing in the last 3 or 4 years to deserve this reputation he has for giving away so many penalties, only time I can remember is that game against Leinster in the RDS last season where he (and many other players on the pitch) was looking for a fight at every breakdown. You are as bad as the statisticians you complain about, how about watching a player play and not judging him by preconceived opinions.

 

[danny]

I think O`Callaghan is a decent player but nothing else. He wins his fair share of line-out, works hard but just comes up short in the presence stakes. If he was a great athelete then It wouldnt matter but he tries to be an enforcer type without the bite. This isnt saying he is a crap 2nd row cos he aint, he just lacks the real edge to make him a top no 4(by Lions standards).

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 1 2009, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Your posts are hard to read mate, and thanks for making it clear that is just an anti Munster thing. Fact is, O'Callaghan has done nothing in the last 3 or 4 years to deserve this reputation he has for giving away so many penalties, only time I can remember is that game against Leinster in the RDS last season where he (and many other players on the pitch) was looking for a fight at every breakdown. You are as bad as the statisticians you complain about, how about watching a player play and not judging him by preconceived opinions.[/b]

Sorry to tease you, I am not anti anyone.

I disagree, that donker is a likely to go on tour as i said there are several players i would pick ahead of him. I have seen him plenty for Munster to have a valid opinion, and to say that his reputation precedes him and is unjustified, is frankly ******.

He is very much like our Ian Gough, where Gough has more brains, Donker has more skill.

Donker had his chances in the 2005 tour and looked very average in both tests. but hey that was a crap tour with awful management.

Maybe he will have a blinder as Munster capitulate in front of a rejuvinated Ospreys at Thormund Park in a few weeks...?

 

[MunsterMan]

OK mate, I know spelling isn't a passions of yours but it is getting hard to tell what is a typo and what is purposely spelled incorrectly.

I'm fine with people not rating DOC, I don't really care I just don't like it when he is called an idiot which is completely wrong, and people using the years out of date poor discipline thing. Basicaly you are entitled to your opinions, even if they are wrong

Gimley keep dreaming

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 2 2009, 04:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm fine with people not rating DOC, I don't really care I just don't like it when he is called an idiot which is completely wrong.[/b]

Quit the spelling jibe its boring, shows that if you are trying to start some kinda slanging thing you are loosing ammo fast


Anyhow:

Re yer man Donker...!

Would it be fair to say that there is currently no one in Ireland or Munster pushing him for his Place ?

Would it also be fair to say that he has rarely been awarded Man of the Match for Club or Country

Would it also be reasonable to suggest that maybe his lack of ability in New Zealand, when he was one of the few fit and hyped players to go on tour, may hinder his chances of selection this time round ?

 

[durbutter]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 1 2009, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 2 2009, 04:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm fine with people not rating DOC, I don't really care I just don't like it when he is called an idiot which is completely wrong.[/b]

Quit the spelling jibe its boring, shows that if you are trying to start some kinda slanging thing you are loosing ammo fast


Anyhow:

Re yer man Donker...!

Would it be fair to say that there is currently no one in Ireland or Munster pushing him for his Place ?

Would it also be fair to say that he has rarely been awarded Man of the Match for Club or Country

Would it also be reasonable to suggest that maybe his lack of ability in New Zealand, when he was one of the few fit and hyped players to go on tour, may hinder his chances of selection this time round ?
[/b][/quote]

This guy.

No it would not be fair to say that. Leo Cullen off the top of me head.
Seriously why are you stirring ****?
There's obviously no point in arguing with you because you will not change your mind.

Would it be fair to say there would be a great advantage in keeping the best 2nd row pairing in the NH together considering the little time available for players to gel?

Having said that, i'd prefer to see Wyn Jones start.

Cant wait to see if you're still around after the Ospreys Munster match. I'll say fair play if Osprey beat Munster but after the Glousceter match, they'd want get back on track this weekend.

 

[GimleyUK]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Apr 2 2009, 04:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

would be a great advantage in keeping the best 2nd row pairing in the NH together considering the little time available for players to gel?

Having said that, i'd prefer to see Wyn Jones start.

Cant wait to see if you're still around after the Ospreys Munster match. I'll say fair play if Osprey beat Munster but after the Glousceter match, they'd want get back on track this weekend.[/b]

Easy with the comment about arguing! a little un-necisary!!! I am always glad to be enlightened by sound point and persuasion, not stats and unfounded airy-fairy Club Bar opinion.

Fair comment about not splitting up a winning line out pairing, they destroyed Wales, and we actually had a line out for a change. That is a case that definatly puts the Donker in the ball park. But as you agreed yourself, Alun Wyn is my choice too.

Leo Cullen, really, I wouldn't say he was pushing to hard now, but you are right in saying he is next in line...!



We were a mix against Gloucester. my opinion is the same as all the pundits, how the hell did the Ospreys not manage to score whilst being so dominant is craziness.

Will have to wait to see what happens with the Quarter finals, I promise you ill be around.

Thing you can say about the Ospreys is that you know they can be as brilliant...!