Football Thread

[Cruz_del_Sur]

They are picking on most of the France team as coming from Africa and not being French. But also being ethnically black means all they are are great athletes who can run fast with the ball. Argentinian players are superior because they beat them and are more skilful and don't rely on just being fast.

Yep maybe it's just a cultural thing that Argentines can't see how it's inherently a racist song, as well as transphobic (which was just to add to the insult).

Oh, i see. You get to develop and exploit modern slavery as we know it and then have the nerve to lecture others on tolerance, morality and ethics.
You ask us to be tolerant, respectful and take into account other people while telling us that our culture is inherently racist without even understanding it. Gotcha.

It's amazing how you fail to comprehend things yet conclude that others dont get it. How about we do, and we disagree.
Straight question: how could he present the idea that we understand you, acknowledge your pov, but we disagree? I'd like a straight answer to that. Because you point seems to suggest that those who disagree with yours trully are racist, pretty much by definition. The audacity!

Going back to the 'getting it' thing. I sincerely think you do not. I'd have no trouble accepting your disagreement if i believed you understood what was going on, what was being said, and why. But evidence suggest you do not, so i hope you understand the conclusion of someone who doesn't fully understand the premises... well, lets just say that doesnt carry much weight.

Just in case you are interested.
We pick on everyone about anything. It has little to do with race, ethnicity or the lot (i did mention my view on the trans part of the song).
We pick on the French because they are taking talent from other places.
We picked on Ireland when they took CJ Stander.
We picked on Garnacho when he joined the Argentine team.
We picked on NZ's player selection when they cherry pick the best of the pacific islanders.
We picked on Spain when they took Diego Costa.

So my question is, if it is about race, as you claim, how the **** are we racist if we make fun of anyone and everyone, including ourselves?

Is it offensive? Absolutely yes. By design and intent. Yes. But it doesnt target anything nor anyone in particular. It's sole aim is to offend. And again, you have a plethora of examples being used on everyone and anyone.
So how can something that is being used against all cultures/races/nationalities/etc be considered discriminatory with regards to nationality/culture race?
By this point it shouldn't take a neurosurgeon nor a NASA engineer to understand how stupid your argument was.


Being called a racist used to be something that stopped conversations, something we all agreed was bad, but then people (like you) came along and started to abuse the term and began to attribute it to anything and everything you couldn't understand, made you feel uncomfortable and/or didnt like. People got tired and stopped caring, which i can see as an obvious and almost instinctive reaction. You, people like you, are a HUGE part of how we came to this place. I know you prolly look youself in the mirror and think 'hey. i called them out. I dont grasp what it means but it sounds bad. I am one of the good guys'. You silly clown.

 

[Saintjay]

Well, not necessarily, and not always. It is whataboutism (formally a tu quoque fallacy) if you are talking about A and switch the subject to B in order to avoid giving a straight answer about A. If the subject is comparing A to B then it is most certainly NOT whataboutism. Just as i conceded there is a part of whataboutism i expect you to concede that not everything there is whataboutism and some of the points have merit.


Could you understand that, from our point of view, it sounds a bit too bloody convenient that no one here says anything about two very high profile people saying EXACTLY the same but when we say it it suddenly becomes faux pas and everyone starts name calling when we do it? It really, really looks as if the outcry depended not on what was said but on the race, ethnicity, etc of the one saying those things, which would make it racist (etc) by definition. Do you see our point?

Let me ask you another thing. We are basically being accused of being racist because of the lyrics of a song. That is fundamentally the argument. The question will sound silly but humour me: how is our song more racist than say, the marseillaise. Do not disregard it, please. And be specific. I want to see, exactly, why you find the lyrics of our song racist, but you say nothing about France's national anthem.

Here's what i see, and please, just as you ask for empathy, have some:

Trevor Noah say the exact same thing: not a word
President of Kenya says the exact same thing: no reaction
ESPN's twitter account says literally the same. Nothing
The French sing their anthem ten zillion times a year claiming what they'd do to those of impure blood. Nothing again.

So my question to you is: how on earth can you be so blind to everything around you and yet have such a specific knowledge of a football chant Argentines happen to sing?

Let me use another example: This is a rugby forum. Argentines sing a 'controversial' footie song: hundreds of posts. Two french rugby players get acussed of rape in their last tour to Arg, a couple of weeks ago: zero posts. ZE-RO.
So apparently offensive footie songs are more newsworthy than (potential/alleged) rape.
Let me guess: you weren't aware of that either. That's shocking.
Do you see the trend now?

I don't know, this is not my specific area of expertise, but it looks like i am either in front of one of the biggest cases of selective blindness in history of mankind or there might be quite a bit of bias here.

And for the love of god, please, do NOT take this as an appeal to pity. Hit us with everything you've got. We encourage it, we love it. We wont cry foul.
We will try to 'hit' back tho.

The rape and racist behaviour has been covered on here. In with the Jaminet stuff definitely.

So the point on zero post is wrong as is 100's on Argentina. Especially if 50% of those are your own posts anyway.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Oh, i see. You get to develop and exploit modern slavery as we know it and then have the nerve to lecture others on tolerance, morality and ethics.
You ask us to be tolerant, respectful and take into account other people while telling us that our culture is inherently racist without even understanding it. Gotcha.

Irrelevant to this song. You're just deflecting by doing whataboutery.

It's amazing how you fail to comprehend things yet conclude that others dont get it. How about we do, and we disagree.
Straight question: how could he present the idea that we understand you, acknowledge your pov, but we disagree? I'd like a straight answer to that. Because you point seems to suggest that those who disagree with yours trully are racist, pretty much by definition. The audacity!

Going back to the 'getting it' thing. I sincerely think you do not. I'd have no trouble accepting your disagreement if i believed you understood what was going on, what was being said, and why. But evidence suggest you do not, so i hope you understand the conclusion of someone who doesn't fully understand the premises... well, lets just say that doesnt carry much weight.

Just in case you are interested.
We pick on everyone about anything. It has little to do with race, ethnicity or the lot (i did mention my view on the trans part of the song).

That is the poorest excuse/justification for racism. Because Argentinians pick on everyone that makes picking on French African immigrants ok then? Incredibly naive or stupid.

We pick on the French because they are taking talent from other places.
We picked on Ireland when they took CJ Stander.
We picked on Garnacho when he joined the Argentine team.
We picked on NZ's player selection when they cherry pick the best of the pacific islanders.
We picked on Spain when they took Diego Costa.

So my question is, if it is about race, as you claim, how the **** are we racist if we make fun of anyone and everyone, including ourselves?

It's racist because the song is pointing out the differences between French team made up of mainly African ethnic immigrant children and implied the Argentine team which is not. Comprendre?

All to feel United and superior as Argentinans. You won. Why sing such an awful song?

All it will do is up the ante next time Argentina meet France.

Is it offensive? Absolutely yes. By design and intent. Yes. But it doesnt target anything nor anyone in particular. It's sole aim is to offend. And again, you have a plethora of examples being used on everyone and anyone.
So how can something that is being used against all cultures/races/nationalities/etc be considered discriminatory with regards to nationality/culture race?
By this point it shouldn't take a neurosurgeon nor a NASA engineer to understand how stupid your argument was.


Being called a racist used to be something that stopped conversations, something we all agreed was bad, but then people (like you) came along and started to abuse the term and began to attribute it to anything and everything you couldn't understand, made you feel uncomfortable and/or didnt like. People got tired and stopped caring, which i can see as an obvious and almost instinctive reaction. You, people like you, are a HUGE part of how we came to this place. I know you prolly look youself in the mirror and think 'hey. i called them out. I dont grasp what it means but it sounds bad. I am one of the good guys'. You silly clown.

Argentinian society is not multi ethnic. Of course you don't understand racism if it punched you in the face. Just blame others who do. That is what the song was a reflection of.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Well, not necessarily, and not always. It is whataboutism (formally a tu quoque fallacy) if you are talking about A and switch the subject to B in order to avoid giving a straight answer about A. If the subject is comparing A to B then it is most certainly NOT whataboutism. Just as i conceded there is a part of whataboutism i expect you to concede that not everything there is whataboutism and some of the points have merit.


Could you understand that, from our point of view, it sounds a bit too bloody convenient that no one here says anything about two very high profile people saying EXACTLY the same but when we say it it suddenly becomes faux pas and everyone starts name calling when we do it? It really, really looks as if the outcry depended not on what was said but on the race, ethnicity, etc of the one saying those things, which would make it racist (etc) by definition. Do you see our point?

Let me ask you another thing. We are basically being accused of being racist because of the lyrics of a song. That is fundamentally the argument. The question will sound silly but humour me: how is our song more racist than say, the marseillaise. Do not disregard it, please. And be specific. I want to see, exactly, why you find the lyrics of our song racist, but you say nothing about France's national anthem.

Here's what i see, and please, just as you ask for empathy, have some:

Trevor Noah say the exact same thing: not a word
President of Kenya says the exact same thing: no reaction
ESPN's twitter account says literally the same. Nothing
The French sing their anthem ten zillion times a year claiming what they'd do to those of impure blood. Nothing again.

So my question to you is: how on earth can you be so blind to everything around you and yet have such a specific knowledge of a football chant Argentines happen to sing?

Let me use another example: This is a rugby forum. Argentines sing a 'controversial' footie song: hundreds of posts. Two french rugby players get acussed of rape in their last tour to Arg, a couple of weeks ago: zero posts. ZE-RO.
So apparently offensive footie songs are more newsworthy than (potential/alleged) rape.
Let me guess: you weren't aware of that either. That's shocking.
Do you see the trend now?

I don't know, this is not my specific area of expertise, but it looks like i am either in front of one of the biggest cases of selective blindness in history of mankind or there might be quite a bit of bias here.

And for the love of god, please, do NOT take this as an appeal to pity. Hit us with everything you've got. We encourage it, we love it. We wont cry foul.
We will try to 'hit' back tho.

Why don't you tell me what Noah and Greizmaan said and I'll be happy to concede, if it's the same thing.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The rape and racist behaviour has been covered on here. In with the Jaminet stuff definitely.

So the point on zero post is wrong as is 100's on Argentina. Especially if 50% of those are your own posts anyway.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Irrelevant to this song. You're just deflecting by doing whataboutery.

Only if the subject is the song, only the song and not the ones who are pointing fingers.
I know your train of thought is slow to leave the station but try to keep up.

That is the poorest excuse/justification for racism. Because Argentinians pick on everyone that makes picking on French African immigrants ok then? Incredibly naive or stupid.

jezus....
Let me use the crayons for toddlers version.

- racism is a form of discrimination
- if we pick on everyone and anyone, including OURSELVES, we aren't discriminating, by definition.
- Never said it was ok. I said it was insulting, by design. Ok is a judgement call.

You inability to grasp elementary concepts doesnt mean those are naive nor stupid. Kindly stop projecting.

It's racist because the song is pointing out the differences between French team made up of mainly African ethnic immigrant children and implied the Argentine team which is not. Comprendre?

It's comprendes, o entendés. Not comprende and most certainly not 'comprendre'. I truly doubt an ignorant troglodyte with an inferiority complex like yourself is in a position to play languages game with me.

I guess you called in sick the day they taught the difference between nationality, ethnicity and race in primary school.
I'm also curious about how pointing out a fact is racist. If anything, the only thing racist here is your interpretation of such facts. We want teams to represent country, and picking players from other places to enhance our team is frowned upon. You dont like it? Cry me a ******* river. You wanna call it racist in a desperate attempt to get some moral high ground? Please, go ahead.
We are reasonably familiar with how some of your countrymen have dealt with racism, colonialism and slavery. Get your act together and when your house is in order get back to me. Should take you a while.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Why don't you tell me what Noah and Greizmaan said and I'll be happy to concede, if it's the same thing.

So sorry, my bad. Thought you knew since i posted the link in one of my previous posts.

Noah


Ruto calling France his african team

 

[BrokenWing]

It'll be Lee Carsley.

He take over in a "caretaker" role and the rumour mill will go into overdrive that The FA is waiting for Guardiola.

That'll blow over and Carsley will remain.

England: Lee Carsley expected to be interim manager for Nations League ties against Republic of Ireland and Finland

Lee Carsley is expected to be the interim manager of the England men's senior team when they play their Nations League games against the Republic of Ireland and Finland next month.

www.bbc.com

 

[Bada-Bing!]

No surprise really. Don't think Carsley will make a bad interim manager. Good coach and brought up within the FA coaching system. It's all the other crap that comes with the job which will wear him down and his full time successor.

Plus, Guardiola is a pipe dream. He's apparently on £20m a year at City. Why would he take a £15m pay cut to manage England and take on the crap that comes with the job? He's very much a man about controlling how the players play and he can't do that in a job like England and fight against the PL and various clubs. He took on Phillips and didn't rate him.

Apparently Howe doesn't want it and neither does Klopp as I said before. If they choose a Tuchel or Pochettino it will again be an admission that the FA don't produce top quality coaches and the job is no longer one for English coaches to aspire to. But that's been part of the problem for a long time.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Jermaine Jenas: Presenter sacked by BBC and taken off air at The One Show and Match of the Day

The former footballer is taken off air at Match of the Day and the One Show.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bada-Bing!]

RIP SGE.

 

[miccloarch]

 

[Bada-Bing!]

One of my favourite players growing up and always interesting to hear his views.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

ROI v England this evening at 5pm. Am sure Rice and Grealish are going to get a warm welcome.

Still, hope Carsley tinkers. Would like to see Gomes start as a 6 in midfield either in a double pivot or central 3 with Rice and Mainoo.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Rice - no celebration out of respect for his GPs.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

no celebration

 

[Bada-Bing!]

And now Grealish, set up by Rice. Couldn't have scripted it better.