Football Thread

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Correction England won that game 1-0. And we are all hypocrites. But unlike Argentines we don't celebrate the cheating we own up to it. Argentines celebrate it as part and parcel of the game. It is not.

You are right, i got the wrong world cup. My bad.
I meant 1998 where Owen dived, got the penalty, scored and all the English celebrated, just exactly what you said you didn't do.

That's the difference between us. We dont go with that holier than thou attitude and switch to opportunist when it suits us.

Again, you cheated and still lost.
Never forget that.
Not only hypocrite, pathetic too.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

You are right, i got the wrong world cup. My bad.
I meant 1998 where Owen dived, got the penalty, scored and all the English celebrated, just exactly what you said you didn't do.

That's the difference between us. We dont go with that holier than thou attitude and switch to opportunist when it suits us.

Again, you cheated and still lost.
Never forget that.
Not only hypocrite, pathetic too.

No, i am saying it diminishes the victory to win by cheating. And we celebrate it less because we did not win by fair means and point out that the win was not earned fairly. Owen dived and cheated in both matches in 1998 and 2002. Lost one and won the other. The one England won will not be remembered in any fond way. I don't recall Maradona ever apologising for scoring by his hand; in fact he revelled in getting away with it. That is the difference. Hypocrite or pathetic or not i know which one is worse. Do you?

And which brings us back to your original point of VAR and why are you against it? Are you afraid such injustices would not be continued to be allowed to decide results? If not then that is hypocrisy of the first degree.

 

[General Melchett]

I also don't understand the suggestion that TMO is fine while VAR is not. Citing childhood sentiment as reason for not having VAR is not a valid argument IMHO - it's a megabucks professional sport and commercially way bigger than rugby. If it helps eliminate errors, assists the officials and helps optimise fair/just results (which is what sport is all about) then it's bonkers not to utilise it. If a by-product is a reduced level of cheating over time then it only goes to strengthen the case for it.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

No, i am saying it diminishes the victory to win by cheating. And we celebrate it less because we did not win by fair means and point out that the win was not earned fairly. Owen dived and cheated in both matches in 1998 and 2002. Lost one and won the other. The one England won will not be remembered in any fond way. I don't recall Maradona ever apologising for scoring by his hand; in fact he revelled in getting away with it. That is the difference. Hypocrite or pathetic or not i know which one is worse. Do you?

You and your lot complain about cheating and but dont say a word when the cheating goes your way.
We try to get away with whatever we can but we dont cry like schoolgirls when that goes agains us.
Take a guess who's the hypocrite.

I also don't understand the suggestion that TMO is fine while VAR is not. Citing childhood sentiment as reason for not having VAR is not a valid argument IMHO - it's a megabucks professional sport and commercially way bigger than rugby. If it helps eliminate errors, assists the officials and helps optimise fair/just results (which is what sport is all about) then it's bonkers not to utilise it. If a by-product is a reduced level of cheating over time then it only goes to strengthen the case for it.

I did a terrible job explaining myself if that's what you got from my posts.
I will try again: Although the tool (var, tmo) is almost identical in both cases the mindset we watch the game with is completely different. I used those childhood examples to explain how that mindset is constructed and where it comes from.
Think about how some literary devices work great for comedies and not so much in dramas. I m exaggerating for illustration purposes but the principles is quite similar.

And regarding the megabuck professional sport, one of the reasons it is that way is precisely because of controversy. The most iconic, well known and discussed goal in the history of the sport would be a non-event if we had VAR. No one would even remember it happened.

Take any latin american, italian, spanish, portuguese football show and more than half of the time spent is on arguing about calls and whether or not it was reasonable for the ref to make that call with the available info at the time. These are some of the longest standing and most watched tv shows in each of those countries.

For me there are 4 reasons why footie is the most popular sport in the world.
1) minimal infrastructure (at least to play between friends).
2) relatively simple rules.
3) Weak transitivity and defense oriented (it is easier to defend than to attack, which, long story short, gives the little guy a chance)
4) Controversy.

Controversy sells.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

You and your lot complain about cheating and but dont say a word when the cheating goes your way.
We try to get away with whatever we can but we dont cry like schoolgirls when that goes agains us.
Take a guess who's the hypocrite.
.

You and your lot? Yeah just lump us all together why don't you. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Heard of that saying? You are just repeating yourself with the "we don't cry" about it argument. What are you 10 years old? Taking the moral high ground because you don't cry about it is not a good reason for continuing controversy or injustice. That is very sad indeed. Personally, i don't ( I don't speak for every single English fan) and would have been more than happy for Owen to have been called up for the cheater he was in those two matches. Why revel in the controversy and what you can get away with? Or because the officials were too inept to pick up on it.

Anyway, you have answered your own question when it comes to who is "more" of the hypocrite. You want such controversies to continue in football. Why? because you can't win by fair means? Can't rely on the likes of a Maradona and Messi to win all of your matches; so just revert to breaking the rules if you can't to win. Yeah, great mentality.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The most iconic, well known and discussed goal in the history of the sport would be a non-event if we had VAR. No one would even remember it happened.

.

Utter garbage. The goal that will be most well known and discussed was in the same match. Even the English players playing in the match could appreciate how brilliant it was because it was scored fairly by the same player. Just because the English team were in shock at the ineptitude of the officiating is beside the point.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Heard of that saying?

Says the guy who supports cheaters when they bring victory to his side but cries foul when it goes against him.
Pathetic.
It's as if you are completely ignorant about what "hypocrite" actually means.

Just because the English team were in shock at the ineptitude of the officiating is beside the point.

Funny you recall the official's ineptitude yet you conveniently forget shilton's, who went out to cut a high ball with his eyes closed.
Then again, you and double standards seem to be a recurring thing.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Says the guy who supports cheaters when they bring victory to his side but cries foul when it goes against him.
Pathetic.
It's as if you are completely ignorant about what "hypocrite" actually means.


Funny you recall the official's ineptitude yet you conveniently forget shilton's, who went out to cut a high ball with his eyes closed.
Then again, you and double standards seem to be a recurring thing.

Where have I said I support cheaters? It's like you're creating the controversy in order to take the moral high ground. It's simply laughable. Anyway, can't do anything now about Maradona's hand of god goal it will stay in the history books (whether Shilton should have knocked him out is an argument for another day), as will Owen diving to win penalties.

So the question is what do you do about it now? Well VAR, and so what are you trying to argue now that VAR shouldn't exist because controversy sells games and Argentine fans, in general, are better, including yourself, because you don't cry about it when controversial decisions go against you? It's flawed logic and no amount of crying "hypocrite" at me is going make VAR go away. I can only presume, as you have explained in your posts, that it is a cultural thing and that is how you have been brought up to believe that breaking the rules and getting away with it is ok and everyone else should also agree and play along.

But VAR is in existence (at the top level) and maybe you should get with it or not watch top-level football anymore if that is what you vehemently believe. Just stick to the lower leagues or street football, where they can't afford it and playing dirty is part and parcel of the game and revel in all the controversies; it will suit your mentality a lot better.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The only thing laughable here is that you call out others on their teams cheating but you do the exact same thing yourselves. Come talk to me about false moral high ground.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The only thing laughable here is that you call out others on their teams cheating but you do the exact same thing yourselves. Come talk to me about false moral high ground.

Give taking the moral high ground a rest. It's getting boring and it's the only thing you have left to cling to. You've clearly got nothing else left to argue when it comes to your original point about why VAR should not exist.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I guess it's understandable to claim something is boring when it's inconvenient and demolishes your argument. I wouldn't know.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I guess it's understandable to claim something is boring when it's inconvenient and demolishes your argument. I wouldn't know.

Anything more to add as to why VAR shouldn't exist in football? Didn't think so.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Anything more to add as to why VAR shouldn't exist in football? Didn't think so.

Do you always answer your own questions?
If you are that desperate to have the last word, just ask.
I feel charitable tonight and your fragile ego clearly needs the boost.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Do you always answer your own questions?
If you are that desperate to have the last word, just ask.
I feel charitable tonight and your fragile ego clearly needs the boost.

You are clearly just trying to obfuscate the issue and not answering the question on VAR, which is why you're playing this game. You took one little comment about a game 1986 and blew it out of all proportion and turn it into a moral crusade and using me to represent all of England.

No, it is not about getting the last word in; it's about engaging in a debate/discussion, which you refuse to do and relate it back to your original point about why you are against VAR in football ( but not the TMO in rugby) in any coherent sense, but instead you try and argue and taking the moral high ground that VAR should not be allowed because:

1. you want controversy and that rules are only guidelines which should be broken as the aim of the players are to win and it is okay to blame the officials for it instead. Hallo isn't that the point of VAR?

2. You were brought up not cry about it if the shoe is on the other foot and the other team win by breaking the rules.
And this is a good thing? How? VAR stops this, but you don't want it to because you want controversy. Really?

Anyway, when you want to address the points I have raised in a coherent sense I am happy to engage. But please no more moralising (descending to calling me a hypocrite and having double standards; thinking this is some kind of ego trip) about games in the past and that have gone and is the whole point of why VAR has been brought in. All you are doing is obfuscating. That is what I am bored with.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Me reading this thread

https://giphy.com/gifs/popcorn-richard-ayoade-the-it-crowd-TrDxCdtmdluP6

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

You took one little comment

So, just to be clear: anything and everything you say that is wrong or backfires is irrelevant or "just a little comment" AND you are not a hypocrite?
Did I get things right?

Anyway, when you want to address the points I have raised in a coherent sense I am happy to engage.

Will do, mr "one little comment".
For someone who likes to through jabs at other people's comments, you've got quite the glass jaw.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So, just to be clear: anything and everything you say that is wrong or backfires is irrelevant or "just a little comment" AND you are not a hypocrite?
Did I get things right?


Will do, mr "one little comment".
For someone who likes to through jabs at other people's comments, you've got quite the glass jaw.

All you have done is the above. Taking one bit of my comments blowing it all out of proportion and throwing jabs. You are now just arguing for the sake of arguing because you have totally lost on the substance of the argument of your original point on VAR, which was non-sensical. All you are doing now is name calling (which is ironic as you are doing exactly the same thing that you are accusing me of) and bringing irrelevance because you cannot justify and clarify your original point for being against VAR. I was just trying to bring the discussion back on point, but you refuse to.

Anyway, VAR is here to stay at the top level of football and thank goodness for that. Should save any further incidences of controversy where the likes of you can jump onto your moral high horse.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This is great football from Ajax

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Got to say that's just an unbelievable free kick to get to 600 goals for Barca. Take a bow son!

 

[Leinster Fan]

Liverpool fan but just wow.

Thought Liverpool were unlucky enough on the whole, 3-0 didn't really reflect the game but when you're up against a player like Messi sometimes you just have to stand back and say wow.