EPS Form Watch

[BPM]

I think Hartley has been a good captain and undoubtedly his on-field leadership skills have played a part in our success in the past year. However, I'd apportion way more credit to Eddie and than the coaching team for our resurgence than I would to Hartley on an individual level.

Hartley has definitely been a key part in re-establishing our set-piece play with accurate throwing, good comunication/timing with the jumpers and his ability as a scrummaging hooker.

In the World Cup our scrum was an obvious weakness and while our line-out wasn't as bad, it was functional rather than a strength. Since then, Hartley's played a big role in helping to turn both in to genuine strengths, but again, it's not an individual difference and clearly Borthwick, Itoje and Kruis have also made a massive impact in improving these too.

Rather than seeing him as holding others back, IMO, he still has a big role to play in transitioning a long-term successor in to the team (much like McCaw did with Cane for NZ). I would keep him as my starting hooker for now. However, I would like to see George continuing to get decent game time from the bench along with starts in some of the AI/6N games and I'd like to see this increase over the next couple of seasons to the point where George begins to take over.

For me George is the best choice all round. He offers similar strengths in the set-piece to Hartley and a lot more in the loose. The fact that he plays week-in, week-out with our current first-choice lock pairing is also a significant benefit.

Taylor has made a very good start for Wasps and LCD is giving a very good account of himself at Exeter and I'd actually be happy with any of them being given a chance to stake a claim to be the long-term incumbent. They all offer different strengths and it can only be a good thing that we have such genuine competition for a key role in the side. My only fear in this scenario is that we could potentially end-up in a situation where we chop and change too much and we don't end up settling on a clear first choice and building around that.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Just got round to watching the Bath game:

Charlie Ewels - Still very impressed with him considering he's filling in out of position, didn't hit enough rucks

George Ford - Tactical kicking has been superb. Timing of his passing was a bit off in the first half, didn't have good ball and probably tried to play too much. Nitpicking though, he was still excellent
Semesa Rokoduguni - A bit quieter than usual, scored a try but also had a couple of other chances he didn't put away - actually a pretty poor hit rate by his standards
Anthony Watson - Was reasonably involved without being spectacular. Good support line for his try, a real winger's try. Horrible defence for theirs though
Fringe: Attwood - Seemed to be everywhere first half, holding Bath together when we were defending poorly, really top performance

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Bath fans - when you have some fit back rowers again, what will your lock pairing be? And who do you think should be in the EPS out of Attwood and Ewels? Personally, although he is a fine player I don't think Ewels offers anything too special. I'd pick Attwood over him without a moment of thought.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Bath fans - when you have some fit back rowers again, what will your lock pairing be? And who do you think should be in the EPS out of Attwood and Ewels? Personally, although he is a fine player I don't think Ewels offers anything too special. I'd pick Attwood over him without a moment of thought.

Attwood had a dip in form that coincided with all of Bath players having problems. At his best Attwood is great but will be competing with Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury and Lawes. We have an abundance of locks to choose from right now. He is more your powerhouse lock and I think his best bet for an England position is to work on that, Itoje has the athletic lock position any day.

 

[Peat]

I'm not a Bath fan but I'd take Ewels anyway. Whichever one of them's in is only there for the experience - they've zero chance of playing - so you might as well give it to the guy that can grow rather than the one who's swung and missed.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm not a Bath fan but I'd take Ewels anyway. Whichever one of them's in is only there for the experience - they've zero chance of playing - so you might as well give it to the guy that can grow rather than the one who's swung and missed.

My thoughts exactly. Attwood's a very good player and would be in most other countries' squad but he's cursed/England are blessed with incredible strength at lock and he's not going to force his way in. As a Bath and England fan it's perfect, England have 2 or 3 world class locks, and we get an international class one who we never lose to international duty.

(FWIW I think he's better than Lawes though)

Also, forgot to add above - Henry Thomas (fringe) - very good all round game, was central to a dominant scrum, a fair amount of carrying and defensive work, made 2 turnovers

 

[Which Tyler]

Attwwood is international class, but a little inconsistent. He can put in 3 MOTM performances on the trot, and then go missing, usually when it really ! matters. Not quite a flat-teack bully, but close. It's the sort of thing is expect 20 caps, and feeling secure in the international set-up to correct; but that's never going to happen with Itoje, Kris and Launch around.

So I'd agree with the above posters, and take Ewels, who has the talent to go all the way.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Attwwood is international class, but a little inconsistent. He can put in 3 MOTM performances on the trot, and then go missing, usually when it really ! matters. Not quite a flat-teack bully, but close. It's the sort of thing is expect 20 caps, and feeling secure in the international set-up to correct; but that's never going to happen with Itoje, Kris and Launch around.

So I'd agree with the above posters, and take Ewels, who has the talent to go all the way.

Well he's got 23 caps and has had chunks when he's been definite first choice but made nothing of it. I've all for him in the past when we had a surfeit of athletic locks (Lawes, Parling, and the like) but no grunt. Now though we've got some great players who can do both.

Any combination of Launchbury, Itoje and Kruis is far superior to one containing Attwood imo.

 

[Geordie]

Who currently should play Haskells role as the smash and tackle anything in sight role, whilst hes out?
Hughes?, Itoje?
We don't seem to have that many in Haskells physical spec.

Or will Jones changes the tactics slightly?

 

[Every Time Ref]

So we're all agreed - Ewels is God

Let the Hype Train commence!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Who currently should play Haskells role as the smash and tackle anything in sight role, whilst hes out?
Hughes?, Itoje?
We don't seem to have that many in Haskells physical spec.

Or will Jones changes the tactics slightly?

I think Harrison is capable of doing it, and he does do it at club level, he just needs the confidence to take it to international level, and Jones can give him that confidence. He did with Robshaw, Hask and Binny.

Itoje is clinical and effective in defence, but I don't think I've seen him really make 'big' hits like Hask.

Hughes simply doesn't have the work rate to do what Hask did.

I'd have thought that either Launch or Lawes could do it, with Itoje moving to flanker. I'd go with Teimana though.

 

[Geordie]

I think Harrison will have got a shock after his brief appearance in Oz. He certainly knows what is required of him now.

It would be interesting to see if he can reach that level.

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I also wonder if Harrison has the actual size and physicality to match watch Haskell does.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think Harrison will have got a shock after his brief appearance in Oz. He certainly knows what is required of him now.

It would be interesting to see if he can reach that level.

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I also wonder if Harrison has the actual size and physicality to match watch Haskell does.

I don't have any question marks over his physicality, in the Prem he's been hitting far above his weight and last season in the Prem was turning far more heads regarding physicality than Haskell ever was. For me it's just a question of whether he's confident enough to do that for England.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Big jump between International and the Prem it could very likely be he isn't up to it or it might be the case of getting more experience.

If Kvesic fails to get a game this year do people think that might be it for him England wise in the Eddie Jones reign? Underhill is likely coming to England in the 2018 season and if he carries on with his form will prob be in the set up.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Big jump between International and the Prem it could very likely be he isn't up to it or it might be the case of getting more experience.

If Kvesic fails to get a game this year do people think that might be it for him England wise in the Eddie Jones reign? Underhill is likely coming to England in the 2018 season and if he carries on with his form will prob be in the set up.

I thought that Kvesic's exclusion from the 45-Man EPS Squad was when it was pretty much guaranteed Jones had no interest in him. I'd be very surprised if he gets any game time this year.

I think the pecking order for the 7 shirt this Autumn is:
1. Harrison
2. Robshaw (Itoje/Hughes - 6)
3. Clifford
4. Kvesic

 

[Which Tyler]

Well he's got 23 caps and has had chunks when he's been definite first choice but made nothing of it. I've all for him in the past when we had a surfeit of athletic locks (Lawes, Parling, and the like) but no grunt. Now though we've got some great players who can do both.

Any combination of Launchbury, Itoje and Kruis is far superior to one containing Attwood imo.

I know he has 20-odd caps,but I'm or sure he's ever had a run as clear first choice, let alone 20-odd caps worth as such to feel secure in the team. Either way, we all seem to be agreed that he's not making the top 3 locks in England shy of injury

 

[Every Time Ref]

Big jump between International and the Prem it could very likely be he isn't up to it or it might be the case of getting more experience.

If Kvesic fails to get a game this year do people think that might be it for him England wise in the Eddie Jones reign? Underhill is likely coming to England in the 2018 season and if he carries on with his form will prob be in the set up.

I think it's already gone for him sadly. I'd love to see him get a proper shot.

Clifford didn't really impress for me, and is probably seen as an 8.
Harrison apparently impressed even less in his 27 minutes or whatever it was.
Hughes isn't a 7 as far as I know.
Robshaw is a backward step.

We don't seem to have anyone to play 7, but then we didn't when Eddie arrived and he turned a bit of a joke into a world class 7, so maybe he'll just do it again with someone else! Here's hoping

 

[Raggs]

Sam Jones fulfills the Haskell role for wasps.

 

[Geordie]

Do we need someone to play the "Haskell" role...or will Jones change his tactics slightly.

If Eddie does stick with the way he has so far, im sure he knows who he will have to replace Haskell. Im assuming he has a structure that should allow players to fit in.

Maybe Harrison has missed his chance...maybe Jones will have had a little chat about the required level. We shall see.

All in all...we don't have anyone to replace the actual physical abilities of Haskell at 6 or 7 (which ever he is actually playing)...but maybe we do have better technical players who can come in with a tweak of the tactics.

What about
4 Itoje
5 Kruis
7 Launchbury

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Sam Jones fulfills the Haskell role for wasps.

Yes, and has started the season very impressively aswell. (Well the whole back row has)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Launchbury at 7? No. With those players it would be Launch and Kruis locks, Itoje 6 and Robshaw 7. Which I'm not a fan of. Partly because I don't want to break up Itoje-Kruis but more because I don't think that a pack with 3 locks and Vunipola at 8 is going to have the athleticism or fitness required in international rugby. We need a real flanker.