EOYT: Wales vs New Zealand, 24/11/2012

[dullonien]

Hold up, where have I insulted him? If you are referring to my "that type of fan" comment I fail to see how thats an insult

He was being sarcastic, and stating that Zapphod was insulting you.

 

[SelimNiai]

Was he? Im so confused. Sorry cmac if thats the case.

I'll be quiet now :fool:

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Was he? Im so confused. Sorry cmac if thats the case.

I'll be quiet now :fool:

 

[Zapphod]

No but you're being very dismissive, putting our small florish down to the AB's not trying, try giving us a tiny bit of credit.

Win graciously its called

I am sorry but I think you are being somewhat precious, what would you like credit for?

I assume you are happy that the team made a come back when the All Blacks had mentally shut down but I am not sure why you seemingly want to make something out of nothing.

If you want me to say that Wales have the capacity to beat the AB's sure they do as does pretty much every team in the top 10 the AB's are far from unbeatable and I think they have attained a reputation this year that in my opinion is undeserved but for some reason the Wallabies started the year as AB cheer leading squad.

However I am of the opinion that until the northern hemisphere teams (France excluded) face up to the reason they are losing to southern hemisphere teams and address those issues you will never close the gap and people sitting here patting Wales, Scotland etc. on the back and saying "there there you tried" is hindering the efforts to close the gap not helping it.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Precious ...

 

[SelimNiai]

I am sorry but I think you are being somewhat precious, what would you like credit for?

I assume you are happy that the team made a come back when the All Blacks had mentally shut down but I am not sure why you seemingly want to make something out of nothing.

If you want me to say that Wales have the capacity to beat the AB's sure they do as does pretty much every team in the top 10 the AB's are far from unbeatable and I think they have attained a reputation this year that in my opinion is undeserved but for some reason the Wallabies started the year as AB cheer leading squad.

However I am of the opinion that until the northern hemisphere teams (France excluded) face up to the reason they are losing to southern hemisphere teams and address those issues you will never close the gap and people sitting here patting Wales, Scotland etc. on the back and saying "there there you tried" is hindering the efforts to close the gap not helping it.

Stop with this "AB's switched off" bullshit. THEY DIDNT SWITCH OFF, they are professional rugby players. You dont get to be the best team in the world (there, that ought to give your ego the boner it requires) by slacking off after you think the game is won. And thinking it does is about as arrogant as if they did switch off.

I dont need you call me precious at all and no, I don't need you to sweet talk us. What I do want is for you to drop your act.

You can reply if you want, I won't read it. Im done with this thread tonight.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I'd love to hear what you think those reasons are, apart from the fact there is a huge lack of interest in the sport in the NH. Or do you want us all to sit back and say 'oh all NZers are just genetically superior to the rest of us end of story'?

edit: & don't be daft, of course they didn't switch off - I don't know who said it but they're professionals, it was blatantly obvious Wales stepped it up a gear. (I'm watching it now at the 60th minute)

 

[Draggs]

I am not going to go looking for crumbs, because it was a **** performance.
Cuthbert and Faletau were pretty decent, the rest were slightly worse than adequate. I won't do a full table but ratings:
Halfpenny: 5-Missed two conversions, but attacked well and was solid in defence.
Cuthbert: 5.5-Nice try and a few good runs, needs to work on tackling.
Davies: 5- Typical match, clever angles but awful in defence.
Roberts: N/A; Williams: 5- Not really an issue in anything, but not outstanding.
WilliamsL: 4.5- Tried to be mental, looked confused. Some good hits in attack, but did not look comfortable on the wing.
Priestland: 3.5-Awful with the boot, little in attack, poor defence.
Phillips: 5.5- Tried to play with pace, distracts opponents better than Knoyle.
James: 4.5- Solid enough in the scrums.
Rees: 4.5- Lineouts surprisingly adequate.
Jarvis: N/A; Andrews: 5- Actually not as awful as he could have been. Probably going to start next week, looked for work in the loose.
Davies: N/A; Jones: 4- Poor tackle completion, tough to rate
Shingler: 5.5- Good lineout option, looked to get stuck in. Start seems likely next week. Weld Lydiate's arms to the boy and we have something.
Warburton: 5- Better game from Sam, harshly penalised but looked to try something.
Faletau: 5.5- Getting back to the form that made him our first-choice Eight.

It is very tough for me to call matches like these. Ultimately, it was a loss, so I can't rate anybody too highly. Many could be changed +/- 0.5.

 

[Zapphod]

I'd love to hear what you think those reasons are, apart from the fact there is a huge lack of interest in the sport in the NH. Or do you want us all to sit back and say 'oh all NZers are just genetically superior to the rest of us end of story'?

It may just be that rugby is not your number one sport just as it isn't Australia's, France and I have no idea what South Africans do for sports but that would be an explanation for lower population countries, it has nothing to do with "superiority" we are just naturally better (note sarcasm).

I don't believe it is funding or a shortage of quality players so in many respects I will say the problem in the NH is possibly one of game structure not producing depth and certainly the way the game is taught as the NH plays a style of rugby that is not conducive to winning against SH teams but that is obviously just my opinion (and you know what they say about them) however what is not my opinion is the fact that for the most part the top NH teams are not beating SH teams and that alone indicates a problem that needs addressing.

Now you can try and turn this into an insult if you like but I do not think it does any good to pat a team on the back when they do not deserve it and I will happily say the same about the All Blacks because if they repeat that second half performance against England next week they will probably lose.

 

[dullonien]

Stop with this "AB's switched off" bullshit. THEY DIDNT SWITCH OFF, they are professional rugby players. You dont get to be the best team in the world (there, that ought to give your ego the boner it requires) by slacking off after you think the game is won. And thinking it does is about as arrogant as if they did switch off.

I dont need you call me precious at all and no, I don't need you to sweet talk us. What I do want is for you to drop your act.

You can reply if you want, I won't read it. Im done with this thread tonight.

Sorry, but teams often do 'switch off' to an extent once the game is done. NZ aren't known for it, which is the reason they win by such big margins a lot of the time. But they did pull the foot off the pedal today in the final 20-30min. They didn't completely switch off as Zapphod is suggesting, but the intensity reduced a little imo.

Of course Wales also had a big influence on the resurgence. In the final 30min we finally string a few phases together without making endless mistakes, and we started offloading a little out of the tackle and counter attacking from deep. We had nothing to lose and the players looked to play with the pressure eased a little. If tey had started like this, then maybe the game would have been different, but I don't think the result was ever in danger, not with Andrews at 3, Ryan Jones in the second-row and Priestland at 10. A full strength Wales team playing well would have put up a good fight, this as far from that, and I'm not sure when will be the next time we see us playing at our best, not with the mess at the regions.

NZ didn't have to do much to win today. They were clinical at the breakdown and in attack when the opportunities were presented to them. What more did they have to do though?

I am not going to go looking for crumbs, because it was a **** performance.
Cuthbert and Faletau were pretty decent, the rest were slightly worse than adequate. I won't do a full table but ratings:
Halfpenny: 5-Missed two conversions, but attacked well and was solid in defence.
Cuthbert: 5.5-Nice try and a few good runs, needs to work on tackling.
Davies: 5- Typical match, clever angles but awful in defence.
Roberts: N/A; Williams: 5- Not really an issue in anything, but not outstanding.
WilliamsL: 4.5- Tried to be mental, looked confused. Some good hits in attack, but did not look comfortable on the wing.
Priestland: 3.5-Awful with the boot, little in attack, poor defence.
Phillips: 5.5- Tried to play with pace, distracts opponents better than Knoyle.
James: 4.5- Solid enough in the scrums.
Rees: 4.5- Lineouts surprisingly adequate.
Jarvis: N/A; Andrews: 5- Actually not as awful as he could have been. Probably going to start next week, looked for work in the loose.
Davies: N/A; Jones: 4- Poor tackle completion, tough to rate
Shingler: 5.5- Good lineout option, looked to get stuck in. Start seems likely next week. Weld Lydiate's arms to the boy and we have something.
Warburton: 5- Better game from Sam, harshly penalised but looked to try something.
Faletau: 5.5- Getting back to the form that made him our first-choice Eight.

It is very tough for me to call matches like these. Ultimately, it was a loss, so I can't rate anybody too highly. Many could be changed +/- 0.5.

Harsh on a few there Draggs. Liam Williams was better than most today, although I agree that he looked a little nuts, but he always does with his hair going all over the place. Stood up physically, and didn't have much chance in attack. Did the right thing, with quick hands to put Cuthbert in for his try.

I also thought Warburton and Shingler deserved a few more points. I'd have given Warbs a 7 and Shingler a 6.5. Faletau was much improved in the second half as well.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I've met sore losers before - but I'll admit I've never met a sore winner.

I don't take it as an insult, more of a failed attempted attack to cement your apparent superiority and rub it in on the rest of us. If you simply don't have as much interest then of course you won't be able to produce the amount of quality players like you do.

Its like me saying how come you didn't do so well in the Olympics? Because you have all your interest in Rugby, and not so much in other sports. & that's fine, but you don't see us trying to rub it in.

Take your win. You deserved it - but don't come on and start slating other rugby fans if they want to give praise to their team for stepping it up after a demoralizing 23-0 half time lead.

 

[Draggs]

Understand Dull. I don't give high rating at the best of times, so a 23 point loss really adds to it.
I am not going to go the 'plucky loser' route, we lost and weren't great. Not 23 points worse, but second best.

What do we have next week???
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, Beck/Williams, WilliamsL, Priestland, Knoyle; Bevington, Owens/Rees, Andrews, Charteris, Shingler, Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau; Rees/Owens, ?, Lee, Peers, Pretorius (Welsh next week I think), WilliamsLl, ?, WilliamsS/Beck. Ryan Jones and Dan Biggar could maybe play. I am assuming all French/English players except Charteris are unavailable.

 

[William18]

I'd love to hear what you think those reasons are, apart from the fact there is a huge lack of interest in the sport in the NH. Or do you want us all to sit back and say 'oh all NZers are just genetically superior to the rest of us end of story'?

edit: & don't be daft, of course they didn't switch off - I don't know who said it but they're professionals, it was blatantly obvious Wales stepped it up a gear. (I'm watching it now at the 60th minute)

We tend to do better because rugby is part of our culture like it is for no other country. Australia beat Italy 22-19 this morning. No one in Australia will really care about that result. There will be a few die hards disappointed in the performance but most people will think little of it. If that happened in New Zealand it would be a national outrage that a team like Italy could hold us to just a three pint victory. In New Zealand it isn't enough to win but we have to win well. We could win every test match in a year by one point and people would be incredibly upset because we demand perfection. Even a one point victory over Australia brings many fans little joy if the team doesn't play well. Most other teams would just be happy with any win. Rugby is not just our national sport but it is part of our culture and our identity. It's just a whole success breads success thing. We have to do well at rugby because it is the only major sport where we consistently excel.

I think it's quite clear that in the last 20 minutes we didn't go all out. Ideally you should play every minute of rugby like the score is 0-0. Psychology is a powerful thing. Of course the players are going to try and play as hard but they won't be as desperate so the effort is not quite there. I believe that if the score was 20-20 with 20 minutes to go then those last 20 minutes would have gone differently. Instead, substitutes who didn't play as well were brought on and Wales showed a bit of fight. You would hardly call

As for Hore, he should get about 10 games for that tackle. It should have been a straight red card too.

 

[Tawa002]

Hello to all here (1st time poster) Well done New Zealand on a good game also Wales man you defiantly showed us what you can do just look at the last 20
imagine if you could play like that for 70 or even 80 mins.
New Zealand doesnt switch off but they do switch down yep they do,

We usually have a good 1st half or good 2nd not often do we dominate for the full 80 even thou the score board at times may suggest otherwise.

Anyhow Wales showed plenty of ticker out there, their cause wasn't helped by a cheap shot by Mr Hore mind you.

 

[Zapphod]

I've met sore losers before - but I'll admit I've never met a sore winner.

I don't take it as an insult, more of a failed attempted attack to cement your apparent superiority and rub it in on the rest of us. If you simply don't have as much interest then of course you won't be able to produce the amount of quality players like you do.

Yeah what ever.
If you don't want an answer to a question don't ask it.

Its like me saying how come you didn't do so well in the Olympics? Because you have all your interest in Rugby, and not so much in other sports. & that's fine, but you don't see us trying to rub it in.

Take your win. You deserved it - but don't come on and start slating other rugby fans if they want to give praise to their team for stepping it up after a demoralizing 23-0 half time lead.

We did well at the Olympics in some areas and that was good to see but you are right we were awful in some areas such as swimming and we need to face up to these things, I am hoping the new high performance funding system will start showing results soon or it will be back to the drawing board.
However if you are expecting me to sit here and defend athletes who under performed as apparently you want to do with your rugby teams it wont happen if they can not make the grade then they can play in mediocrity on their own dime.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

'Yeah what ever' - Of course I wanted an answer from you, that doesn't mean your always right.
I don't expect you to defend anyone - I expect you to graciously accept your win and not lord it over others like you've just done.


Edit: You're not getting the point, you've just said you could improve in other areas in the Olympics. You know you weren't good enough. It's EXACTLY what we're saying on this forum about rugby. Everyone's always talking about why we don't perform and how we can improve. Nobody is saying we are better than the SH, and every Wales fan will admit they were outplayed - just like every Ireland fan will admit we got thumped in the summer.

You say you hope the extra funding will help you in other sports - we hope the small, but growing interest in rugby will hopefully help produce more top quality players.
I suggest you looking up in a dictionary what hypocrisy is.

 

[ARCM]

Going a bit off topic and going on about the Olympics are you not?

 

[kovana]

Zapphod, you sound like a ABs bandwagoner.

If the NZ team was losing as much as Wales were, you would have abandoned the team ages ago. Just look at 2009 when after only a few losses, NZ couldnt even sell out their home test matches. So please, stop posting rubbish in here. You come off sounding like an arrogant snob.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Going a bit off topic and going on about the Olympics are you not?

If you actually read what I'm saying you'll see the point I'm trying to make.

 

[ARCM]

It was way too long. anyways, wales had a little resurgence in the second half - I rhink priests and has lost confidence; looked abit uneasy coming off. Great game all blacks!