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EOYT: Wales v Argentina, 10/11/2012

GarethEWilliams

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Wales
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Ospreys
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff (10-11-2012, 14:30 GMT)
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Wales v Argentina: Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Blues), George North (Scarlets); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets); Gethin Jenkins (Toulon), Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Toby Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt).
Replacements: Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Paul James (Bath), Robin McCusker (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), James Hook (Perpignan), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

I would have liked to see Tipuric at 7 and Sam at 6. NZ have move McCaw to 8 with success, so why cant Sam do it? Also I dont think there is much creativity in our midfield, looks like we are going to rely on brute force, and I think we will need more to break the Argies down.

Excited that the internationals are back though.
 
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For christ sake, Preistland doesn't deserve to be the Scarlets starting 10, let along anywhere near the Welsh starting line up! Don't rate Turnbull, but not much we can do with Lydiate and Ryan out, pity they didn't use this to take a chance on playing Warburton and Tipuric together. Pity Beck is injured, not Scott Williams's biggest fan, still bemuses me why he didn;t pass the ball in the England game with two men lining up to score...lucky for him he made up for it in the end...
 
That is an awful, awful side.
Wales v Argentina: Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Blues), George North (Scarlets); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets); Gethin Jenkins (Toulon), Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Toby Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt).
Replacements: Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Paul James (Bath), Robin McCusker (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), James Hook (Perpignan), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Bolded players should not be where they are. Shingler and Tipuric have outperformed their rivals. Hibbard over Rees. Priestland must be one of the worst outside halves I've seen currently. Knoyle... ugh.
New Zealand are going to knock the living **** out of us.
 
To be honest I don't know if we're going to beat Argentina with this side, just baffles me how he's picked so many horribly off form players?!
 
I think Paul James should have started ahead of Gethin for this game.

With Adam Jones, Wales can afford to play a less strong scrummager alongside as JOnes is immense, but with the debutant Jarvis I think he would need the support in the scrum of James.

The unfortunate thing is that Argentina are rumoured to be selecting a side with a goal kicker and try scorer in it, which will make them more dangerous than before.
 
Holy ****. Turk halfbacks.
Oh god...

Beck is injured, so that makes sense. Matthew "I'll just chuck it over 'ere 'en" Rees starting. Josh Turnbull starting for Wales, when he wouldn't even make the 23 for any other region.
 
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When Howley was announced as stand in coach I was less than happy, is there a reason that Shaun Edwards was not given it?

We are going to rely on our back 3 for this, and captain fantastic.

The only positions he couldn't have got wrong was 4,5,7,11,12,14,15. So thats 7 that pick themselves. Out of the other 8 how many has he got right? 3 at most, and I would have even gone 6. Toby, 7 Tipuric and 8 Warbs. But then what do I know!
 
Maybe one of the mods could start the Wales v Argentina thread, so we can get both teams' talk on one thread.
The likely Arentina team: 1- Marcos Ayerza, 2-Eusebio Guiñazú, 3-Juan Figallo, 4-Manuel Carizza, 5-Julio Farías, 6-Tomás Leonardi, 7-Juan Manuel Leguizamón, 8-Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe, 9-Martín Landajo, 10-Nicolás Sánchez, 11-Gonzalo Camacho, 12- Felipe Contepomi, 13- Gonzalo Tiesi, 14-Juan Imhoff, 15-Juan Martín Hernández.
 
I am so angry seeing this team, we need to win games for a good seeding!

Halfbacks won't control nothing! Priestland 10? After the aussie tour! Biggar wil start Samoa now then i take it.

Not seen much of turnbull to take a comment.

we will struggle!
 
Just noticed something, we don't have any 2nd row cover at all? Ian Evans (finally selected again) and Alun Wyn Jones could easily last the 80, but what if one gets injured? McCusker and Turnbull probably don;t have the out and out grunt to really play there. I know Charteris is playing for Perpingan this weekend and Davies is injured, is there no one else?
 
I have no idea how Howley has picked such a poor team. GarethEWilliams is correct in saying that half the team picked itself. Because both Jon Davies and Beck are injured, starting Scott Williams was the only viable option (Hook wasn't an option after playing all his rugby at 10 this season). That means that numbers 11-15 were set in stone. Phillips is obviously paying for his poor form at Bayonne, couple that with missing the majority of the Poland training camp and it does make some sense I suppose. Still, Phillips always picks it up massively for Wales, and I think it's a big mistake to leave him out (not to mention that a similar out of form, French based Jenkins has been included). Priestland was always going to be picked, I think it's a huge mistake because he's in atrocious form But at the same time I really hope he plays well and regains some confidence, because he adds a lot to the team when playing well. Still 3 tests down under didn't improve him one bit, and he's gone even further backwards at the Scarlets since.

How did he manage to mess up the backrow? The solution was simple, but he brings in Turnbull who's not been playing well at all. Wtf does Tipuric have to do to get into the starting 15? I'd have also started Paul James over Gethin Jenkins, but really hope Jenkins shows what he's made of and has a storming series. Rees over Hibbard was always going to happen imo. Howley not fully forgiven him, but at least he's got a spot on the bench, I wasn't expecting that tbh.

Anyone know how long Beck is out for? Disappointed not to see him get more gametime. Also, there is some serious impact to come off the bench!
 
I have no idea how Howley has picked such a poor team. GarethEWilliams is correct in saying that half the team picked itself. Because both Jon Davies and Beck are injured, starting Scott Williams was the only viable option (Hook wasn't an option after playing all his rugby at 10 this season). That means that numbers 11-15 were set in stone. Phillips is obviously paying for his poor form at Bayonne, couple that with missing the majority of the Poland training camp and it does make some sense I suppose. Still, Phillips always picks it up massively for Wales, and I think it's a big mistake to leave him out (not to mention that a similar out of form, French based Jenkins has been included). Priestland was always going to be picked, I think it's a huge mistake because he's in atrocious form But at the same time I really hope he plays well and regains some confidence, because he adds a lot to the team when playing well. Still 3 tests down under didn't improve him one bit, and he's gone even further backwards at the Scarlets since.

How did he manage to mess up the backrow? The solution was simple, but he brings in Turnbull who's not been playing well at all. Wtf does Tipuric have to do to get into the starting 15? I'd have also started Paul James over Gethin Jenkins, but really hope Jenkins shows what he's made of and has a storming series. Rees over Hibbard was always going to happen imo. Howley not fully forgiven him, but at least he's got a spot on the bench, I wasn't expecting that tbh.

Anyone know how long Beck is out for? Disappointed not to see him get more gametime. Also, there is some serious impact to come off the bench!

I would have loved to see Hook at centre actually, I wish Wales had never moved him from there in the first place and it's a shame him playing there never comes up in discussion any more.

He has a great fend and also pass and offers a good combination with the direct boshers Davies or Roberts, who playing together are a bit too predictable a lot of the time.

Unfortunately Hook himself has always insisted on playing 10, and as a result he has spent this last year playing as utility back off the bench, and in his want to play 10 he has actually spent more time playing 15.

There was a stat in the 6N which showed how much more points Wales were scoring with him on the pitch than off it, it's a shame that we have only seen glimpses of Hook at his best for Wales, I think he is capable of so much more than he has shown. I also think with Halfpenny goal kicking, he would thrive even more in the side without the pressure of goal kicking.
 
I have no idea how Howley has picked such a poor team. GarethEWilliams is correct in saying that half the team picked itself. Because both Jon Davies and Beck are injured, starting Scott Williams was the only viable option (Hook wasn't an option after playing all his rugby at 10 this season). That means that numbers 11-15 were set in stone. Phillips is obviously paying for his poor form at Bayonne, couple that with missing the majority of the Poland training camp and it does make some sense I suppose. Still, Phillips always picks it up massively for Wales, and I think it's a big mistake to leave him out (not to mention that a similar out of form, French based Jenkins has been included). Priestland was always going to be picked, I think it's a huge mistake because he's in atrocious form But at the same time I really hope he plays well and regains some confidence, because he adds a lot to the team when playing well. Still 3 tests down under didn't improve him one bit, and he's gone even further backwards at the Scarlets since.

How did he manage to mess up the backrow? The solution was simple, but he brings in Turnbull who's not been playing well at all. Wtf does Tipuric have to do to get into the starting 15? I'd have also started Paul James over Gethin Jenkins, but really hope Jenkins shows what he's made of and has a storming series. Rees over Hibbard was always going to happen imo. Howley not fully forgiven him, but at least he's got a spot on the bench, I wasn't expecting that tbh.

Anyone know how long Beck is out for? Disappointed not to see him get more gametime. Also, there is some serious impact to come off the bench!
Maybe Rob do not consider the Argentine side an important challenge for his players.
 
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I think some of the reaction has been just but some need to calm down.

There are some shock selections in the midst of what Howley has selected. Think the biggest talking point is starting Preistland at 10. The guy has seriously been lacking some form. I don't rate him but obviously in training he has been doing the right things which is why Howley and Co have gone with him. I only need to remind people that under Gatland, Howley and Co. Wales team selections have tended to be quite consistent and that club form does not always dictate / guarantee a player's selection. This has proven successful for Wales and at the end of the day people years ago were calling for consistent selection and this is what they are getting. I still believe that this is a big mistake as Preistland has rarely delivered in a Welsh shirt and to be fair Biggar should have gotten the nod.

As for Jarivs. He's stepped up to fill Adam's boots at club level and been successful. It's now a chance for him to do so at International level and see if he is a better bet than others. Personally I would have selected Paul James at three but I have enough confidence that Jarvis will do the business. I find it laughable that there were some who think Gethin should have been dropped, again goes to my point above ... Gethin delivers everytime for Wales and does it every game. Rarely does he have a bad game in a Welsh shirt, people I think need reminding of that. On the same point ... it doesn't matter if we have Gethn and Jarv starting in regard 'less of a scrummager' because both will do a job, be more worried if it would have been Andrews at 3. James should have started at 3 not at 1 if anything.

The selection of Turnbull is a right field selection. Not one I necessarily agree on but one I can see why it has. Personally I would have rather seen Warburton at 6 and if not then Shingler who offers something more than Turnbull. Turnbull has obviously done enough in Spala to show that he deserved the 6 slot.

Boys seriously grow a pair and get behind this team and not be all doom and gloom. Let's be positive.

I'm on the opinion that Knoyle is lucky to start. I don't think he's great and neither do I think he is better than Lloyd. Phillips on the other hand is plain lucky to be involved. A man who can provide a touch of class on those rare moments which allow people to talk how good he is rather than them focusing on what he doesn't do for Wales ... quick ball for the backs. But as I have already said ... consistent selection is what Wales are about.
 
I have no idea how Howley has picked such a poor team. GarethEWilliams is correct in saying that half the team picked itself. Because both Jon Davies and Beck are injured, starting Scott Williams was the only viable option (Hook wasn't an option after playing all his rugby at 10 this season). That means that numbers 11-15 were set in stone. Phillips is obviously paying for his poor form at Bayonne, couple that with missing the majority of the Poland training camp and it does make some sense I suppose. Still, Phillips always picks it up massively for Wales, and I think it's a big mistake to leave him out (not to mention that a similar out of form, French based Jenkins has been included). Priestland was always going to be picked, I think it's a huge mistake because he's in atrocious form But at the same time I really hope he plays well and regains some confidence, because he adds a lot to the team when playing well. Still 3 tests down under didn't improve him one bit, and he's gone even further backwards at the Scarlets since.

How did he manage to mess up the backrow? The solution was simple, but he brings in Turnbull who's not been playing well at all. Wtf does Tipuric have to do to get into the starting 15? I'd have also started Paul James over Gethin Jenkins, but really hope Jenkins shows what he's made of and has a storming series. Rees over Hibbard was always going to happen imo. Howley not fully forgiven him, but at least he's got a spot on the bench, I wasn't expecting that tbh.

Anyone know how long Beck is out for? Disappointed not to see him get more gametime. Also, there is some serious impact to come off the bench!
Most don't like Phillips, but he is certainly a better option than anyone else. As you have said, he picks it up for Wales.
The Turk mafia would have you believe Knoyle is in good form, but behind an awful pack. Half of that is true. Turnbull is awful, can only tackle, and nowhere near as effectively as Lydiate/Jones.

Is this what our side has become? So predictable that stupid that we cannot make any changes? With the regions performing the way they are, and ****wits like Howley left in charge, what can we expect?

At least Lambie might get a shot this weekend!
 
Bring on the Six Nations! Long may Howley's reign continue! :p

Seriously though, I have a soft spot for Wales. I hope I'm not overreacting when I say this is a shocker in selection policy.

There are some shock selections in the midst of what Howley has selected. Think the biggest talking point is starting Preistland at 10. The guy has seriously been lacking some form. I don't rate him but obviously in training he has been doing the right things which is why Howley and Co have gone with him. I only need to remind people that under Gatland, Howley and Co. Wales team selections have tended to be quite consistent and that club form does not always dictate / guarantee a player's selection. This has proven successful for Wales and at the end of the day people years ago were calling for consistent selection and this is what they are getting. I still believe that this is a big mistake as Preistland has rarely delivered in a Welsh shirt and to be fair Biggar should have gotten the nod.
If only rugby games were decided in training... :p
 
I think some of the reaction has been just but some need to calm down.

There are some shock selections in the midst of what Howley has selected. Think the biggest talking point is starting Preistland at 10. The guy has seriously been lacking some form. I don't rate him but obviously in training he has been doing the right things which is why Howley and Co have gone with him. I only need to remind people that under Gatland, Howley and Co. Wales team selections have tended to be quite consistent and that club form does not always dictate / guarantee a player's selection. This has proven successful for Wales and at the end of the day people years ago were calling for consistent selection and this is what they are getting. I still believe that this is a big mistake as Preistland has rarely delivered in a Welsh shirt and to be fair Biggar should have gotten the nod.

As for Jarivs. He's stepped up to fill Adam's boots at club level and been successful. It's now a chance for him to do so at International level and see if he is a better bet than others. Personally I would have selected Paul James at three but I have enough confidence that Jarvis will do the business. I find it laughable that there were some who think Gethin should have been dropped, again goes to my point above ... Gethin delivers everytime for Wales and does it every game. Rarely does he have a bad game in a Welsh shirt, people I think need reminding of that. On the same point ... it doesn't matter if we have Gethn and Jarv starting in regard 'less of a scrummager' because both will do a job, be more worried if it would have been Andrews at 3. James should have started at 3 not at 1 if anything.

The selection of Turnbull is a right field selection. Not one I necessarily agree on but one I can see why it has. Personally I would have rather seen Warburton at 6 and if not then Shingler who offers something more than Turnbull. Turnbull has obviously done enough in Spala to show that he deserved the 6 slot.

Boys seriously grow a pair and get behind this team and not be all doom and gloom. Let's be positive.

I'm on the opinion that Knoyle is lucky to start. I don't think he's great and neither do I think he is better than Lloyd. Phillips on the other hand is plain lucky to be involved. A man who can provide a touch of class on those rare moments which allow people to talk how good he is rather than them focusing on what he doesn't do for Wales ... quick ball for the backs. But as I have already said ... consistent selection is what Wales are about.

I do agree with a lot of that, but form should always be taken into account, especially after what happened in Austrailia where arguably not selecting the form players cost us a test, if not a series. Down under, Priestland, Warburton and Gethin Jenkins in particular were all well below where they should have been.

I do agree with dropping Phillips to some extent. He's been in dire form by all accounts, and has also been in trouble off the field. I do think that Knoyle has been in ok form, behind a weak pack, but then I also think that Gareth Davies is the form 9 at the Scarlets, not Knoyle. Hopefully dropping Phillips has the desired effect, because I fully expect him to come on, and if he proves himself, I'd also expect him to then start the remaining tests. Lloyd's form is not good at the moment, I'd have Knoyle over him.

I have no problem with Jarvis' selection. He was always my first choice after Adam was ruled out. Moving Paul James is a temporary measure, and we need to develop some back-up for Adam. Hopefully Samson Lee also get's a chance. I really do hope Gethin recovers form, but he was quite poor in Austrailia, and is not getting game time at Toulon. Paul James is a better scrummager than Gethin, I don't think anyone can dispute that, so starting Paul James on the loose in the absence of Adam Jones would have been sensible imo. I do think that we may struggle slightly in the scrum against Argentina, nothing huge.

Turnbull just makes no sense to me. He's not been playing well at 7 for the Scarlets, granted out of position. Moving Warburton isn't a big deal imo, especially because he's not been in top form himself. Tipuric has been the stand-out backrower in Wales, but hasn't been included, yet they are prepared to move Turnbull away from the position he's been playing all season at the Scarlets. Shingler would have been a better option, but the most sensible option would have been to have both Warburton and Tipuric.

I am fully behind the team, but honestly my opinions of Howley are quite low.

Wales have always placed too much emphasis on training. This has sometimes paid off, but form should always be a better guide. The times that Wales have gone on form (World Cup), Wales have performed.
 
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Oh Im completely behind the team, and if I find somewhere to watch the match in Munich, I will be shouting my head off at it, but some of these selections baffle me! I just hope players like Priestland and Turnbull front the f*** up and show what they're made of or we're gonna have to rely on the likes of Halfpenny, North and co to win us the game...

I do wonder though, this probably means Biggar is starting next week, hope he gets the full team around him. Gonna need it vs Samoa

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Biggar must be thinking to himself what more must he do to warrant having a starting berth against a "top tier" nation. I don't mean this in any disrespect against the Somoan's, but it now looks likely he'll play in an experimental side against them, happens every year! We mess about with Team selection, and play a new XV and scrape through, or even lose the game. I do feel for him.

Phillips' exclusion is a shock, but I haven't seen or heard about his club form.


The whole talk on "pick on form" is a complete joke most of the time though, they never do. They go for tried and tested formula's and hope their form will show in Welsh colors (which I hope they do :D).

Its not all doom and gloom, don't see it as a bad side. Its one of those things, If you support one side, your want your players starting, if you support another, you want yours. Hopefully we'll be talking positive on Sunday, after the game has finished! Gonna be a seriously tough match :( :(
 
Biggar will get a run with the Friday ****heads and after a decent performance in a second-choice team, he will be discarded.
Happens every year, guaranteed.
 
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