EOYT: Scotland v AIG All Blacks, 11/11/2012

[Larksea]

watched the game last night. All this talk about weepu doing so well? he had an ok game at best I thought, Actually I kept thinking what Aaron Smith could have done with all the space the Scottish defense was leaving, I think the AB's would have clocked up 60+ with Aaron smith. Though TKB was pretty poor when he came on, I don't think barlow is ready for test footy, too much 50/50 about his game.

Vito pretty good at 8, I think I said some time ago that he should be used primarily as a #8 for the AB's. Good to see that's starting to pan out

Thomson was pretty average, stupid foot work, not dangerous or malicious - just stupid. Was that his last test?

Crockett actually looked pretty good to me, his best test for some time. Still think Owen Franks is unlucky not to be getting more game time in tests.

Barrett was good at fullback, I expect to see him more and more at test level because of his utility. Been saying for a long time that IMO it's only a matter of time till he leapfrogs Cruden within the squad and I think we are "starting" to see that now. And the fact he can play wing or fullback may mean he gets more chances.

the main observation I take from the game above anything else was the midfield combination of Ellison and Smith. I really don't think the AB's lost anything without Nonu and Conrad on the field. From what I've seen of Ben Smith this year he's every bit as good as Conrad Smith, watertight defense just as accurate as Conrad maybe not quite as much impact on defense, I think easily a better running game and kicking game and he never seems to make a wrong decision or knock on. And Ellison also compares well to Nonu, maybe not the same level of x-factor on attack but better at many other aspects of the game to a point where he more than makes up for it.

 

[Draggs]

Carter is overrated and McCaw hates kittens.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

watched the game last night. All this talk about weepu doing so well? he had an ok game at best I thought, Actually I kept thinking what Aaron Smith could have done with all the space the Scottish defense was leaving, I think the AB's would have clocked up 60+ with Aaron smith. Though TKB was pretty poor when he came on, I don't think barlow is ready for test footy, too much 50/50 about his game.

Vito pretty good at 8, I think I said some time ago that he should be used primarily as a #8 for the AB's. Good to see that's starting to pan out

Thomson was pretty average, stupid foot work, not dangerous or malicious - just stupid. Was that his last test?

Crockett actually looked pretty good to me, his best test for some time. Still think Owen Franks is unlucky not to be getting more game time in tests.

Barrett was good at fullback, I expect to see him more and more at test level because of his utility. Been saying for a long time that IMO it's only a matter of time till he leapfrogs Cruden within the squad and I think we are "starting" to see that now. And the fact he can play wing or fullback may mean he gets more chances.

the main observation I take from the game above anything else was the midfield combination of Ellison and Smith. I really don't think the AB's lost anything without Nonu and Conrad on the field. From what I've seen of Ben Smith this year he's every bit as good as Conrad Smith, watertight defense just as accurate as Conrad maybe not quite as much impact on defense, I think easily a better running game and kicking game and he never seems to make a wrong decision or knock on. And Ellison also compares well to Nonu, maybe not the same level of x-factor on attack but better at many other aspects of the game to a point where he more than makes up for it.

I thought it was very strange to bring the inside back cover on at fullback (i know he can play fullback) and leave one of the best fullbacks (if not the best) in the centres. should we take tis as a sign B Smith is being seriously considered as C Smiths replacement rather than fullabck, i guess we have a few good fullabcks coming through....

Carter is overrated and McCaw hates kittens.

i actually went to school with richie and i know that is just not true...he loves kittens...hates puppies

 

[TRF_heineken]

i actually went to school with richie and i know that is just not true...he loves kittens...hates puppies

Apart from Gareth Thomas, nearly every rugby player loves the pussy (cats)...

Too soon??

 

[donmcdazzle]

Ellison was fantastic in this game, apart from Nickdnz nobody has really mentiuoned it. Some of his handling was fantastic, he took it to the line and made half breaks, and one offload he got away was awesome. Easily the second best performance behind Carter.

Barrett was ok, looked good coming into the line as a second receiver to shift it wide a couple of times. Maybe his future is as a Nick Evans type 10/15 for the AB's. His is still the 3rd best 10 though.

Weepu is getting a lot of praise just for not being bad which is pretty funny, Smith would have had a field day against the back pedalling Scots.

Can't wait for the game on the weekend. Smith and Cruden should cut Italy to ribbons.

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Scotland have improved, I think they played well against the ABs. My issues is that they still continue to have brain farts after doing something great. They also are so close to becoming a team that is greater than the sum of their parts.

Richie Gray played great, Denton was a beast, Brown took to being a Captain well.

I have never seen our front row do that much work around the field (minus ford). Ford was off, but you can tell he was not happy and should be fired up for the next game.

We still have a few people injured, but our depth has improved. I thought Du Luca played well, but I still don't think he should be a starter at 13, Lamont would be better or at least equal. But I really want to see Ansbro back, he never hit his full potential and injuries have not helped.


The hardest question now, is what to do with our back three once Maitland is an option.

Maitland, Visser, Lamont, Hogg are all great players and add so much to Scotland. but I have faith in Sir Andy.

Keep moving forward Scotland, and keep trusting each other, less turnover leads to better communication and faith in each other, and that can be our competitive advantage. Keep working through the EOYT and lets focus on the 6 Nations…

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i think one of the things that doesn't get much of a mention is Ellison is an amazing defender, he put in some huge hits for the highlanders this year. in this age of very big 2nd5's being able to shut down the channel is a great advantage, force teams to go wide where the touchline is an extra defender

 

[Larksea]

well I did have Ellison and Smith as my main positives from the game. Ellison was impressive, broke a lot of first tackles, good on defense and his hands were pretty much faultless.

 

[donmcdazzle]

well I did have Ellison and Smith as my main positives from the game. Ellison was impressive, broke a lot of first tackles, good on defense and his hands were pretty much faultless.

Yip you did mention it too sorry. I thought he was great eh, Ben Smith was rock solid and carried well, but I thought Ellison was all those things plus creative too. Nonu would want a big game this weekend.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

I think you might have been dreaming...

\

lol i actually thought i was dreaming. I had to rewind and check if he actually said it. Maybe he was being sarcastic and i wasnt aware of this but it was when Carter took the kick off after Visser scored a try from Carter's pass that got intercepted.

Only got around to watching the game lastnight that someone uploaded onto youtube (bless these good people)

Dont know how to embed vids but heres the link. Around 18.49 into the vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gqMX-TBam0&feature=plcp

"Dan Carter hugely overrated" think ill have this as my sig.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Haha, yeah I think he's taking the mick out of Jonathan Davies going on about throwing the intercept.

 

[Larksea]

man I hope they made that idiot hand Dan the man of the match award!

 

[Saintjay]

Good old Scots taking the mick out of Davies. All very much in jest. Davies nominated Cater as the man of the match.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

haha a bit of scottish humour eh

 

[Helmy]

One of the reasons why their skill level is so high, is because of touch rugby. Touch comps are huge in Nz & Oz & a lot of rugby players play touch 2 - 3 times a week in the off season. So you get props and second rowers playing touch and learning how to throw 15/20m passes as well as learning how to catch bullets and also things like running lines and angles. So you end up with forwards that have pretty handy ball skills. And we have decent weather, so the ball gets flung around a lot. I think in the UK, it's wet and cold and not conducive to open rugby, so people don't get a chance to develop these vital skills. Watching the England game, they had a simple two on one and their prop with the mohawk threw a spanner pass and bombed the try. You could see by the way he was holding the ball and by the way he passed, it was not something that was natural to him. Those lack of basic skills cost teams games.

I would definitely agree about the touch point, especially because it's automatic turnover if you drop the ball, no matter which way it goes. You've also got to find ways to keep the balls alive in small spaces without getting caught out.

Also, RE the Dan Carter being overrated comment, I'm pretty sure it was something said with tongue firmly in cheek.

 

[Darwin]

Most of this game has been well covered already, but my $0.02 on the game:

- Crockett was very good, though I still worry about him against better / more wily scrummaging opponents at test level.
- Sam Whielock was very good, and Romano wasn't far behind.
- Vito had an excellent game at 8. He is certainly far more effective at 8 rather than 6 at this stage of his career, though does have the potential to develop into a top class test 6 (though Messam still deserves that AB's 6 Jersey at this stage).
- Thomson was solid, apart from the obvious stomp. There wasn't a huge amount in it but it was certainly reckless at the very least, so I would like to see him get a good 2-3 week ban.
- Weepu was better than normal (he even ran the ball a couple of times!), but was hardly outstanding. I can't help but feel Kerr-Barlow's nervous debut made Weepu's performance appear much better than it was! I'm still not convinced Kerr-Barlow is quite ready for test level, but he did show a few glimpses of his talent.
- Carter was magnificent. I would go as far as to say that was probably the most dominant performance I've seen from him since the Lions tour of 2005.
- I was very impressed with the midfield combo, though it was only Scotland Ellison certainly played well at 12 - as has been mentioned I think many people under-estimate how physical he is these days. Ben Smith looked like Conrad Smith - his ability to straighten the line then quickly pass was instrumental in a couple of the AB's tries.
- Savea was very dangerous, though as Nick pointed out needs to back himself with ball in hand a bit more. Barrett looked pretty composed at fullback, though I would be a bit worried having him at fullback against some of the better teams as I'm still not convinced about his defense.

Overall a pretty good performance from the AB's considering they hasn't played in a few weeks, and this was largely a makeshift side. It will be interesting to see what sort of side we put out against Italy...

 

[Larksea]

Ben Smith is pure class

A couple times during the game he collected a bad pass sent to him and effortlessly delivered a perfect pass to his outside. He just has a basic set of stills that are polished to a very high level that I think is rare.

I recon if it was possible to get a stat that showed error rate in comparison to time in play or times in contact with the ball he would be off the chart at the +ve end compared to others.

Barrett just seems to take test footy in his stride, like he's running out for the naki on a sunday afternoon. He's going to be ridiculously good in a couple years.

Shame we did not see Sam Cane, McCaw is obviously keeping well clear of playing #6, he wont touch it with a 10ft barge pole probably because he knows that as soon as he's stuck there it will become blatantly obvious that he should be there more often if not on a permanent basis. When at a guess I'd say he seems to complete his legacy as a 7.

Would have made sense to take Thomson off for the last 15 move McCaw to 6 bit I highly doubt we will see that sort of thing happen any time soon for that reason.

 

[Helmy]

I think Barrett is definitely going to be Carter's replacement in the long term. Cruden came onto the scene with a huge reputation, and bare the odd flash of brilliance, he was largely disappointing during his time at the Hurricanes. I also look at the difference to the Barrett has made to Taranaki as opposed to the difference Cruden has at Manawatu. Obviously it's a team sport, but few teams win anything without an exception fist five running the ship.

Yes, Cruden is arguably better than Barrett at present, but it's taken him a long while to get there, whereas Barrett seems to have just slotted in seamlessly. I know there will be greater tests yet to come, but I don't think he will disappoint.


I hear a lot of people argue that Cruden has x factor. Well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx7uosD42L4

 

[Darwin]

Ben Smith is pure class

A couple times during the game he collected a bad pass sent to him and effortlessly delivered a perfect pass to his outside. He just has a basic set of stills that are polished to a very high level that I think is rare.

I recon if it was possible to get a stat that showed error rate in comparison to time in play or times in contact with the ball he would be off the chart at the +ve end compared to others.

Barrett just seems to take test footy in his stride, like he's running out for the naki on a sunday afternoon. He's going to be ridiculously good in a couple years.

Shame we did not see Sam Cane, McCaw is obviously keeping well clear of playing #6, he wont touch it with a 10ft barge pole probably because he knows that as soon as he's stuck there it will become blatantly obvious that he should be there more often if not on a permanent basis. When at a guess I'd say he seems to complete his legacy as a 7.

Would have made sense to take Thomson off for the last 15 move McCaw to 6 bit I highly doubt we will see that sort of thing happen any time soon for that reason.

You and I have known that for years - it has just taken everyone else a while to realize this

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I think Barrett is definitely going to be Carter's replacement in the long term. Cruden came onto the scene with a huge reputation, and bare the odd flash of brilliance, he was largely disappointing during his time at the Hurricanes. I also look at the difference to the Barrett has made to Taranaki as opposed to the difference Cruden has at Manawatu. Obviously it's a team sport, but few teams win anything without an exception fist five running the ship.

Yes, Cruden is arguably better than Barrett at present, but it's taken him a long while to get there, whereas Barrett seems to have just slotted in seamlessly. I know there will be greater tests yet to come, but I don't think he will disappoint.


I hear a lot of people argue that Cruden has x factor. Well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx7uosD42L4

You aren't trying to say Barrett has more of an impact on Taranaki than Cruden has on Manawatu, are you...?