EOYT: Ireland v South Africa, 11/10/2012

[TRF_stormer2010]

That is a good question. I don't think there is a professional league in the Netherlands, which would explain why professional players don't make the trip - especially if they could lose their current positions in the clubs. With that being said - if they moved to Europe to play in France for example and are uncapped by SA, and are eligable to play for the Netherlands, I don't see why they wouldn't explore that possibility (if overseas clubs would be happy to accomidate).

I'm sure if the Netherlands ever gave a toss about rugby as a whole nation (sure there are plenty of passionate individuals) and wanted to recruit some South Africans, they'd be in luck. Although presumably (and forgive me if I'm totally wrong), Namibia could also recruit an awful lot of South African's through vague heritage? I don't know if the quality of life would be any better, but surely there would be lots of South Africans eligable to play and get a spot in the Rugby World Cup (helped more by the Namibian team in the Vdacom Cup?)

There are lots of people living in SA with links to Namibia its true. I'd guess more so than the Netherlands (WRT eligibility) seeing as the majority of our ancesters came across the Atlantic more than 3 generations ago LOL (I know my ancestor (PC de Jager) came here in 1685 to farm and had 10 children!) while a lot of Namibians come to SA due to better opportunities in more recent years. ATM though the reverse is also true as Windhoek is experiencing a bit of an economic upliftment and I studied with a few people who moved to Namibia due to the building industry in SA hitting rock bottom a few years back.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I find it a little ironic that the Heineken (Dutch brand) cup is arguably the pinnacle of pro club rugby in the world yet has no Dutch involvement other than being the named sponsor.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Let Eze comment on the state of rugby in the Netherlands
It is all about the money, no way Holland or Namibia can pay the same slaries

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Let Eze comment on the state of rugby in the Netherlands
It is all about the money, no way Holland or Namibia can pay the same slaries

Yeah, I've been hanging around the forum all day waiting for Eze. I'm sure the Netherlands could generate money that could match the resources avaiable to say Argentina. They also have the benefit that they are very close logistically speaking to France and could have players play in the top14 as Arg and to a large extent Italy do to start off with if they felt like making the investment.

 

[Amiga500]

Any of the Irish on here see 'against the head' last night?

What is Victor Costello smoking? O'Callaghan in, Ryan to 6, O'Mahony to 7, and Chris Henry out of the team?

Sure Henry was the best of the backrow and O'Callaghan was powderpuff when he came on. Sometimes I wonder do the pundits watch the game, or do they just repeat their preconceived ideas regardless of what has actually happened in the game!?!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yeah, I've been hanging around the forum all day waiting for Eze. I'm sure the Netherlands could generate money that could match the resources avaiable to say Argentina. They also have the benefit that they are very close logistically speaking to France and could have players play in the top14 as Arg and to a large extent Italy do to start off with if they felt like making the investment.

Yes but is there any sense of people in the Netherlands that will watch rugby?? Is it played at schools?

My Grandfather never heard of rugby when he came to SA just after the world war 2, and only learned about it when he met my grandmother in Middelburg (Mpumalanga). In Holland they are soccer, swimming and winter olympics sport crazy... don't think rugby will get much attraction...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You only need a relatively small core fanbase in a country as small as the Netherlands geographically for a pro team to be viable IMO.

 

[Amiga500]

Indeed - I'm sure the Rabobank Pro12 would welcome a Dutch team with open arms - for a multitude of reasons... some of which are very obvious!

 

[Seaton]

You only need a relatively small core fanbase in a country as small as the Netherlands geographically for a pro team to be viable IMO.

Don't know about that.

Scotland would undoubtedly have a far larger fanbase than the small one you are hypothetically talking about and yet neither of its pro teams are viable. (If the country were smaller and you combined the teams and crowds - still nadda.)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, a debate about Dutch rugby... After 2,5 years some Afrikaners start the debate. Yes, it's ridiculous but this is the way it is. Dutch people don't give a flying f* about rugby. Ask people overhere who they know and they will give you this answer: "Yeah, the one who always scores for England" (they mean Jonny Wilkinson) or "that really big strong black guy who plays for South Africa" (meaning Jonah Lomu, because according to the Dutch, the whole black rugby community must be from South Africa). They just don't care. Rugby is really low in the pecking order.

It's: Football -> Tennis -> Ice Skating -> Cycling -> Field hockey -> Formula 1 -> swimming -> netball -> basketball -> Golf -> gymnastics -> judo -> equistrian -> badminton -> waterpolo -> baseball -> American Football -> Chess -> Billiards -> then rugby... Rugby is not a professional sport in Holland, but the RD Pro12 and Heineken Cup are being sponsored by 2 of the biggest Dutch companies in the world. Why? I don't know. A lot of South Africans would fit in perfectly in Holland and playing rugby for the national team is not really that difficult to achieve even if you have experience in South Africa only at Varsity level.

The thing is, to apply for residency, you have to live and work in Holland for 5 years. So, the only way a South African rugby player can represent the Dutch national rugby union team, is to find a job, play rugby in his spare time (mostly semi-professional, but not enough to live off) and once they play for the national team, they can move to France/England to play professionally again. That's the tricky part. As long as rugby is not a priority in Holland, we will never really achieve anything.

Is there enough interest to have 1 Pro team in, for instance, the RD Pro 12? Maybe. Who knows... A competition where we have teams from Romania, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Switserland and Austria might work but given the fact that in some countries the sport is semi-pro at most, chances are there won't be anything to benefit from for the clubs.

On a different note: Can you imagine the British & Irish Lions next year?

2. Richardt Strauss

4. Mouritz Botha

8. Toby Faletau

11.Tim Visser

12.Brad Barritt

What's so British about the team when these players are eligible? Should the Lions-staff make a stand and only call up British & Irish-born players in the squad?



Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[psychic duck]

Well, a debate about Dutch rugby... After 2,5 years some Afrikaners start the debate. Yes, it's ridiculous but this is the way it is. Dutch people don't give a flying f* about rugby. Ask people overhere who they know and they will give you this answer: "Yeah, the one who always scores for England" (they mean Jonny Wilkinson) or "that really big strong black guy who plays for South Africa" (meaning Jonah Lomu, because according to the Dutch, the whole black rugby community must be from South Africa). They just don't care. Rugby is really low in the pecking order.

It's: Football -> Tennis -> Ice Skating -> Cycling -> Field hockey -> Formula 1 -> swimming -> netball -> basketball -> Golf -> gymnastics -> judo -> equistrian -> badminton -> waterpolo -> baseball -> American Football -> Chess -> Billiards -> then rugby... Rugby is not a professional sport in Holland, but the RD Pro12 and Heineken Cup are being sponsored by 2 of the biggest Dutch companies in the world. Why? I don't know. A lot of South Africans would fit in perfectly in Holland and playing rugby for the national team is not really that difficult to achieve even if you have experience in South Africa only at Varsity level.

The thing is, to apply for residency, you have to live and work in Holland for 5 years. So, the only way a South African rugby player can represent the Dutch national rugby union team, is to find a job, play rugby in his spare time (mostly semi-professional, but not enough to live off) and once they play for the national team, they can move to France/England to play professionally again. That's the tricky part. As long as rugby is not a priority in Holland, we will never really achieve anything.

Is there enough interest to have 1 Pro team in, for instance, the RD Pro 12? Maybe. Who knows... A competition where we have teams from Romania, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Switserland and Austria might work but given the fact that in some countries the sport is semi-pro at most, chances are there won't be anything to benefit from for the clubs.

Tim Visser got some coverage this weekend in the Netherlands for scoring twice against the All Blacks. There's even an interview with him on some Dutch TV station.

http://nos.nl/video/439902-sprookje-rugbyheld-visser.html
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/21068967/__Tim_Visser_Schotse_held__.html

On a different note: Can you imagine the British & Irish Lions next year?

2. Richardt Strauss

4. Mouritz Botha

8. Toby Faletau

11.Tim Visser

12.Brad Barritt

What's so British about the team when these players are eligible? Should the Lions-staff make a stand and only call up British & Irish-born players in the squad?

Not this again ...

 

[coonor]

Well, a debate about Dutch rugby... After 2,5 years some Afrikaners start the debate. Yes, it's ridiculous but this is the way it is. Dutch people don't give a flying f* about rugby. Ask people overhere who they know and they will give you this answer: "Yeah, the one who always scores for England" (they mean Jonny Wilkinson) or "that really big strong black guy who plays for South Africa" (meaning Jonah Lomu, because according to the Dutch, the whole black rugby community must be from South Africa). They just don't care. Rugby is really low in the pecking order.

It's: Football -> Tennis -> Ice Skating -> Cycling -> Field hockey -> Formula 1 -> swimming -> netball -> basketball -> Golf -> gymnastics -> judo -> equistrian -> badminton -> waterpolo -> baseball -> American Football -> Chess -> Billiards -> then rugby... Rugby is not a professional sport in Holland, but the RD Pro12 and Heineken Cup are being sponsored by 2 of the biggest Dutch companies in the world. Why? I don't know. A lot of South Africans would fit in perfectly in Holland and playing rugby for the national team is not really that difficult to achieve even if you have experience in South Africa only at Varsity level.

The thing is, to apply for residency, you have to live and work in Holland for 5 years. So, the only way a South African rugby player can represent the Dutch national rugby union team, is to find a job, play rugby in his spare time (mostly semi-professional, but not enough to live off) and once they play for the national team, they can move to France/England to play professionally again. That's the tricky part. As long as rugby is not a priority in Holland, we will never really achieve anything.

Is there enough interest to have 1 Pro team in, for instance, the RD Pro 12? Maybe. Who knows... A competition where we have teams from Romania, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Switserland and Austria might work but given the fact that in some countries the sport is semi-pro at most, chances are there won't be anything to benefit from for the clubs.

On a different note: Can you imagine the British & Irish Lions next year?

2. Richardt Strauss

4. Mouritz Botha

8. Toby Faletau

11.Tim Visser

12.Brad Barritt

What's so British about the team when these players are eligible? Should the Lions-staff make a stand and only call up British & Irish-born players in the squad?



Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

Would that mean Heaslip wouldn't be able to travel? Or Hartley?

You have to be careful about this foreign player thing. I agree its all gone too far and the granny law has become quite ridiculous, but just because someone isn't born in Britain or Ireland doesn't mean they're not British or Irish.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, lets really not start all this up again.
Barritt has English grandparents, anyhow.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

None of those players will start anyway. Maybe 1 or 2 might go on and play the mid week matches (ie Visser and Barritt)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yeah, a Dutch born rugby player only gets attention when he scores 2 tries against the All Blacks. Nobody paid attention when he made his debut and scored a try against the Pacific Islands. No, a Dutch player has to play out of his skin against the best team in the world and he gets an interview which only showed on the website, not even on the sports news broadcast itself. No, they show a Chinese woman who now plays badminton for Holland after getting citizenship. Dutch people don't give a **** about rugby and that will not change.

@pd: Sorry for the Lions bashing

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[GHUNIT50]

I think Visser was given a lot of attention, hes easily a contender for the lions with Cutherbert, North and Bowe being the forerunners. He's the exact player Scotland needs, a tryscorer, given that his replacement is Max Evans :/

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I think Visser was given a lot of attention, hes easily a contender for the lions with Cutherbert, North and Bowe being the forerunners. He's the exact player Scotland needs, a tryscorer, given that his replacement is Max Evans :/

Not in Holland... The only time they will report on him from now on is if he scores 3 tries in the World Cup final. Anything less than that is not news worthy for this country full of brain dead football junkies

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[Amobokoboko]

The best kept Dutch secret.
But even here in Belgium Debaty isn't that famous. I reckon a select group of people following the French side know who he his.

 

[Icemn]

lol!

He's our second highest try scorer this year... Damn!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Senan]

Yeah, a Dutch born rugby player only gets attention when he scores 2 tries against the All Blacks. Nobody paid attention when he made his debut and scored a try against the Pacific Islands. No, a Dutch player has to play out of his skin against the best team in the world and he gets an interview which only showed on the website, not even on the sports news broadcast itself. No, they show a Chinese woman who now plays badminton for Holland after getting citizenship. Dutch people don't give a **** about rugby and that will not change.

@pd: Sorry for the Lions bashing

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Visser got alot of attention in Europe when he debuted for Scotland. I actually live in Holland and he did get attention in Amsterdam anyway, which is where he is from and that's the only place id expect him to get it from