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[EOYT] France vs South Africa 23/11/13

Anyone understand why the SA try was disallowed?

The Fourie try? TMO said Steyn knocked it on before JDV scooped it up. I did not agree with that one; thought it still went backwards.

The Domingo yellow was absolutely absurd, as was the penalty against Slimani for "leading" with his forearm.
...Seriously, since when are you not allowed to push against a tackler using your forearm?

I thought Domingo should have got red. I thought the law was to start from red and work back from there for tip tackles. If Warburton's WC tip tackle was deemed red and Kurindrani's v Ireland, then Domingo was just as bad.

Slimani should have got a yellow for leading with a forearm into the throat of the SA player; same as Bismark got for his second yellow v the ABs.
 
I'll try to make this concise, because it's not even really important anyways:
- S.A. are beatable: South Africa and New Zealand have won all their matches (prob. in Ireland too tomorrow) and are clearly the 2 best teams in the world. Successful tour. But while NZ are virtually invincible, South Africa aren't. Far from it. Many mistakes, backs aren't technically proficient (even Habana just kick-and-chases really) if not for good speed race. Their line-outs were awful today, and they missed out a bunch of good opportunities the Blacks would've murdered us with. I thought France would come out more physical tonight, but I suppose in a contact, battle-oriented sport like Rugby, there's no substitute for sheer weight.
- I'd like to see that JDV-to-Fourie try. I thought it was one, maybe I'm wrong.
- Slimani with the forearm to the defender's throat. Loses us the penalty we so direly needed. Plus, dangerous, silly move.
- the try Huget pressed down before the Bok wasn't a try.
- Huget with a magnificent break, splits open South Africa, great kick and chase, horrible bounce. Too bad, SA was beaten, that was a try...but SA had some good ones not go their way, so sure, wtvr.
- Good defense, but SA were very good in the rucks. All in all, if not for that freak accident at 1', SA would've have scored no try at all for 80 minutes. Not bad.
- the first yellow: it wasn't a yellow card, it was Thomas Domingo picking up Habana, and Habana forcing his head down with momentum.
- Pascal Papé biitchslapped JDV and then got a response from Louw. Acted like someone had punched his head in. Crappy play, but did it for France and in reply to Habana's obvious perfidy. Fair enough.
- We looked a lot better playing at 14 VS 15, maybe we should do it more often.

Conclusion:
All in all you're just another bri......oh wait, no sorry. Let me start again.
All in all even though we played a much better match against NZ, they scare me on a different level. I'd much rather still get SA. They're very strong, they pushed us way back on that maul we made :p, they even pushed us back on many occasions in the scrum for e.g., but if you get past that, you can beat them. It's just one dimension: force.
They played well, looked dominant in the 1st half, but then we easily could have won this match and we didn't even play a very good one...

What this means for France is we still have our strengths that have been consistent: scrum, defense, penetrating backs (Fofana, Doussain, Huget, Guitoune....all constantly penetrated with good body technique, the whole way), a great FB in Dulin, a strong half-back pair (Parra was 'mmmmm.....' though).

I think we'll have a good 6N. All I wanted to know out of this match was: can we rival the Springboks ? And say all you want - it's clear we can. If we'd got beat down badly, in a number of sectors of the game, and a huge point difference like 25, then we'd be in trouble. But again, we didn't play up to potential and still kept right there threatening to get that try and win by 1. Too bad, but eh...

Anyone understand why the SA try was disallowed?

The Domingo yellow was absolutely absurd, as was the penalty against Slimani for "leading" with his forearm.
...Seriously, since when are you not allowed to push against a tackler using your forearm?

well it's still a dangerous forearm to the throat. Choose anything else but that to push off.

Another victory for the Boks...

Another loss for France...:D
 
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The Fourie try? TMO said Steyn knocked it on before JDV scooped it up. I did not agree with that one; thought it still went backwards.



I thought Domingo should have got red. I thought the law was to start from red and work back from there for tip tackles. If Warburton's WC tip tackle was deemed red and Kurindrani's v Ireland, then Domingo was just as bad.

Slimani should have got a yellow for leading with a forearm into the throat of the SA player; same as Bismark got for his second yellow v the ABs.


During the replays for the Fourie try, if you look at the ball in relation to the pitch, rather than it's path between Steyn and JDV, then I could see how they say it went "forward". It looked like it basically stopped going backwards after touching Steyn's hand, but because he was running forwards it looked like it continued backwards. Hhhoowweevveerr I'd say it was still going backwards at least a tiny tiny bit, which means try.


I don't think Slimani led with the forearm - looked like he had contact with his wrist, as he was trying to get a fend, which then turned into a forearm/pushing Fourie around with his forearm/elbow. It also looked like initial contact was with the upper chest which then rode up.
I'd say still a penalty, just as high tackles which start low, but ride up, are, but not a yellow/not in the same vein as BdP.
 
SA deserved the win and by a margin of more than 9 points; I thought they really controlled the territory overall. French did well and disrupted the Springbok line out, but lost the breakdown battle. SA firmly the 2nd best team in the world.

It would have been Interesting if they had played the English at Twickenham .Though you are correct.Sa 2nd best team in the world.For the sake of rugby I hope France England Wales and Australia can improve.
 
I thought Domingo should have got red. I thought the law was to start from red and work back from there for tip tackles. If Warburton's WC tip tackle was deemed red and Kurindrani's v Ireland, then Domingo was just as bad.

Slimani should have got a yellow for leading with a forearm into the throat of the SA player; same as Bismark got for his second yellow v the ABs.

There was no "tipping" involved, domingo was holding his legs and Habana fell backwards, bending at the knee.
The tackler has a responsibility to tackle safely, equally the ball carrier needs to make an effort to keep himself in a safe position in the tackle.
Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, I'll have another look later.
That's how I remember it.

Slimani did not "lead" with his forearm though, he used it for leverage once the tackle was made.
Please explain how that is dangerous, it simply isn't.

I find people calling that dangerous embarrassing.
 
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I'll try to make this concise, because it's not even really important anyways:
I agree with most of that.

JDV might not be a great player, but he is an excellent captain.

I cannot understand why France don't smash it through the middle with Basteraud every time - so much quick ball for the back three to attack left and right.

No reason to deny the SA try on 44 mins. No blame on the ref, but he should have explained the decision of the video ref.

Anyway - good game by SA. Clever team.
 
I agree with most of that.

JDV might not be a great player, but he is an excellent captain.

I cannot understand why France don't smash it through the middle with Basteraud every time - so much quick ball for the back three to attack left and right.

No reason to deny the SA try on 44 mins. No blame on the ref, but he should have explained the decision of the video ref.

Anyway - good game by SA. Clever team.

Fritz+Fofana had worked so well against the All-Blacks at both ends (esp. defense) Saint-André thought it was a no-brainer for selection. Many people say Fritz is a Springbok in a bleus jersey cause of his physicality, I'm sure you know (you're French right ?).
Bastareaud sure helped, and Doussain was much better than Parra, and our scrum was good towards the end with Slimani...all the replacements were better !!!!! :p AAAALLLL !!!

Yeah I dunno about that Fourie try, I think it's good but I'll have a look when available.
 
(you're French right ?).
.
No! I hate the French - except when they beat the ABs. That's when the French are truly French.

The rest of the time the French imitate the English. And I hate the English even more. It's an Irish curse. Otherwise I admire the Welsh and pity the Scots. LOL!

But Basteraud - why not? It would change French play completely, stop the pointless drifting out to the wing.
 
But Basteraud - why not? It would change French play completely, stop the pointless drifting out to the wing.

Fritz did that (beasted it up the middle and prevented it reaching the wings) all night and gave away a minimum of four penalties while doing it so really successfull tactic!
 
......he can be but is usually not which is why he does not command a first team spot for club nor country!
just because off toloun buying so many foreign players and he cant be placed in the team if he was starting for toloun i bet he'll be a regular starter for france
 
.....he was not for Stade before so we agree to disagree! He is similar to Nonu some years ago only Nonu learnt to be a footballer and is well worth his place. Basteraud, everyone knows what to expect from him and he is marked out of the game as much as Fritz was today. Neither has finesse or brings team mates into the game as Nonu does so welland Tuilangi just about manages to do!
 
btw, that Boks scrum separating the French scrum in two was such a strange sight. I'd like to watch this again, not to downplay the very good Boks scrum tonight, but wtf was that ?...what happened there ?...

Statistically for the scrums, France on own feed won 7/9 (78%) vs for South Africa 3/5 (60%) so France still got a good edge. But it's strange, we started with the Boks back-pedalling noticeably. Then very stable. Shortly after collapsing. Then infringements. Then South Africa got a clear advantage on like 3 scrums, including that separation thing..

Anyways: France got exposed tonight. Our scrum isn't indestructible, even if it hasn't been put to fault overall in a game.

France out played the line-outs, interestingly:
11won, 2 lost (85%) vs 12won, 4lost (75%).

Rucks are very similar, we both conceded 16 turnovers each, and both went 3 from 5 on mauls. So no, South Africa didn't have the advantage at the breakdown either stat-wise.

But now, the interesting and predictable stats ridiculously in favor of France, the side that still lost this match. The attack stats (order: France then South Africa):
- Possession: 57% vs 43%
- Passes: 125 vs 92
- Runs: 91 vs 75
- Meters with ball in hand: 350 vs 169
- Defenders beaten: 18 vs 5
- Offloads: 11 vs 1
- Tackling success rate: 94% vs 84%

Some of those are ridiculously one-sided, and yet France lose at home by 9 points. Gotta gotta gotta convert those opportunities ! And South Africa managed to, after they missed a tackle, come back and stop a play. But really France just fkd up too many times. Just one try for France, despite some excellent sequences. Too many butchered good balls.

Also, France conceded 12 to 10 penalties. Two more.

Surely I'm not the only one asking: how does South Africa play such a simple style, and still win a lot, and why don't we all imitate or at least emulate some of it since it's so easy ? I like pretty attacking Rugby and I like our backs a lot atm and they're super technical and everything, but I'd trade those 350m for the 169m if a win's at the end of it.

Sooner or later, France must develop that attack. Today was horrible in parts, very good in parts, but overall a confirmation that we're not where we should be still. Two new articles appeared on a french website, the ***les read:
"Saint-André says 'we're not at the Blacks' or Boks' level'" and "Les Bleus' worst enemies ? themselves".
 
Not getting into all that but stats for possession, running and tackling in terms of whereabouts territorial wise and then also for mistakes made would be interesting!!

What are you still doing up.................I am off now!
 
Hey Adidas, why the fu**ing blue shorts come back?

WHITE SHORT for France, please!
 
Yeah. What a joke of a field. Anyway, scores were close, but we were never in threat of losing. We were more brutal, and as I predicted, our loose trio schooled the french in what a big hit is. We were not even near as good as we can be, and all the people who say we are 'definitely beatable'... yes we are. But the best you can offer still seems to not be good enough on your own turf, against a tired Bok team. We have now, in the last two tours, and at home, beaten all of the NH teams. It's a small testament to how far we have come.

2 unbeaten NH tours, and losses only to New Zealand, one in a game ruined by poor officiating, and the next, a different mindset, and goal of scoring 4 tries, aided in the type of game we played.

If this is what we can accomplish with the mix of youngsters and veterans we have, as well as the sheer physicality, then I will take it any day of the week. In 2 years time, we are going to be very good.
 
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"- S.A. are beatable:"
"But while NZ are virtually invincible, South Africa aren't."

Big Evis, you seem to be concentrating on how potentially poor SA can be, it is getting old now, let it go
No one said we are not flawless, beatable yap yap yap - only you keep on mentioning it like you need to prove something to this forum...

As for the game, a mediocre visiting team on the day, hard done by some calls (TMO) outclassed the other at home on a pathetic turf (again...)
SA no 2 in the world and getting better
France no 5/6 in the world - probably fair and Wales could pass them when the rankings are updated on Monday
 
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