EOYT: France vs Samoa, 24/11/2012

[barthelemy]

I still don't see how that explains why you'd call it a lucky try.

You can't compliment or you don't want to compliment?

I don't think any Samoan defended Pisi's boot here, that was Physic Duck, who I think is a Welshman.

Our results this year are not really different to last year, so it's not just two games -we've been consistently competitive for a couple of years now. I always find it funny when a big team can't thrash us, it's because they played badly and not us playing well enough to make them play badly, but hey, we're quite use to that excuse now.

I personaly understand what you are saying but also, you have to understand the perspective of others.

Samoa is not especially a big team in the international classification, France has beaten Samoa all the way long. Therefore, do not blame the french if they are not rating your team high. The truth is that Samoa has never beaten France. So do not blame us if we are not very fair in some ways. Because, yeah, we expect our team to beat your team. No offense here, just looking at the facts.

Coming back to the match of today, Samoa is ****ing strong but I would say that France should not loose so much balls at the breakdown, there was something unusual about it. It is still discussable if it was because of Samoa being strong or France being weak and not concerned. I would say it is bit of both.


I think you could say that France has been lucky in some ways today, that would not steal the truth.

 

[AfakasiAssasin]

Great effort by the team. I honestly thought we outplayed the French and in a sense we shoudlve won. The mental errors we made in the last twenty minutes giving away silly penalties (and Pisi having an off day with the boot) is what I feel made all the difference.
Still very proud of the team and for their efforts all year. We went 5 - 2 this year with the only loses to France and Scotland (both tier 1 and games we couldve and shouldve won). We achieved our goal of breaking into the top 8 for a more favourable draw at thwarting next RWC with a potential jump to number 7 if Wales lose to Australia next week.

 

[Super Sub]

I personaly understand what you are saying but also, you have to understand the perspective of others.

Samoa is not especially a big team in the international classification, France has beaten Samoa all the way long. Therefore, do not blame the french if they are not rating your team high. The truth is that Samoa has never beaten France. So do not blame us if we are not very fair in some ways. Because, yeah, we expect our team to beat your team. No offense here, just looking at the facts.

Coming back to the match of today, Samoa is ****ing strong but I would say that France should not loose so much balls at the breakdown, there was something unusual about it. It is still discussable if it was because of Samoa being strong or France being weak and not concerned. I would say it is bit of both.


I think you could say that France has been lucky in some ways today, that would not steal the truth.

I have no problem at all with French fans thinking they're favorites and being confident in a win, I don't know where I said else-wise?

The breakdown is one of our best strengths, we did the exact same thing last week against Wales. We've been doing the same to every team since 2010.

yoe91, no one will argue that this is a place to discuss points, but it can be done without the ******** overtone.

 

[Super Sub]

Great effort by the team. I honestly thought we outplayed the French and in a sense we shoudlve won. The mental errors we made in the last twenty minutes giving away silly penalties (and Pisi having an off day with the boot) is what I feel made all the difference.
Still very proud of the team and for their efforts all year. We went 5 - 2 this year with the only loses to France and Scotland (both tier 1 and games we couldve and shouldve won). We achieved our goal of breaking into the top 8 for a more favourable draw at thwarting next RWC with a potential jump to number 7 if Wales lose to Australia next week.

Pretty happy we got 8th. I didn't really factor in Argentina losing to Ireland by so much, so I assumed we'd be 9th if we lost to France.

I don't know how they draw the pools but there might not be much difference between 7th and 8th? Regardless, it's nice to know we don't have two giants in our pool for once.

 

[UilamOsa]

meh...fun in parts but it's never great when you see plays in the making never concluding now is it ? We love watching a nice play start (in any sport) with great fluid passing and all, until the exclamation point, the finish. The entire play is meaningless without a finish. So a lot of frustration, on both sides. What I call a "stupid game", full of half-assed ideas, half-entertaining, momentum-broken moments.

Yes you're right Samoa pressured France very well, but France still didn't play as well collectively AND individually as the two other games. Michalak threw a few poor passes and was SPOT ON in the other two for e.g. Picamoles was strong as always resisting tackles but wasn't as pivotal as the other two, they didn't make an effort to find him enough, he wasn't used properly.
The only constant for France was the defense. Gooood stuff, coz Samoa was looking threatening almost every single time.

I think all this stuff ppl are throwing at me is more due to their own frustration of having someone underestimate Samoa only a bit and pointing out their flaws (which they don't accept) rather than me having a problem complimenting this side or another.

You want to criticize us (France) based on our flaws ? Go ahead, I'd be glad to hear different opinions, things I may have left out. Please, this is a forum, made to discuss points, not to applaud every single team like happy little smurfs after test matches for no fkn reason.

It could be argued that because of the pressure they were forced into making mistakes, whereas the French pretty owned the ruck and the collisions against Australia - Samoa wouldn't back down. It for me was similar too the Tonga game at the RWC. It was relentless pressure from Samoa. If not for the ill discipline by Samoa, the score would've been more likely for Samoa.

The only thing that seemed to stop the Samoa momentum was the use of the Subs by the French, Szarzewski in particular tightened up everything. The French seemed disorganised and looked like they lacked options when they were being pressured.

I'm a fan of Michalak but seriously, are there no other 1st Fives? He's enjoying a long awaited revival but it doesn't seem like there's anyone else pushing? Are there injuries? I don't watch the French comp.

I watched the game, and had thought that Samoa would be close to another upset. Especially after that first try. Which was absolutely spectactular, a prop chipping an angled kick into the open? And Ben Franks (in the AB's match) spreading the ball to create another try? Wow...that's the rugby I want to watch.

The difference between to the two teams for me was the calibre of players off the bench, and the discipline of both teams (for France on defence, and Samoa - a lack of discipline in last 20 mins). I think I've said this before - but I miss Mahonri Schwalger.

 

[Big Ewis]

Super Sub: "******** overtone" ?? Simply fok you. Fok you. I've written long paragraphs for your pussy-ass (or should I say over-sensitive, female-like nature) to delicately explain to you I'm not biased but simply pointing stuff out that are neutral and crystal clear. Don't address me please from now on PLEASE (I'm asking), I'm not interested.

UilamOsa : absolutely man. That relentless pressure, exactly what Samoa used in Sydney a couple yrs ago. Incredible energy.
But you mention the lack of discipline for Samoa at the end, it's that they were burned out. The only way they could pressure France and stay in the game was by throwing wave after wave of pure adrenaline and energy, and they just dropped naturally in the last 15' or so. I find it amazing enough they could hold it so high and had France trailing for a large part of the match !!
Big props there for Samoa.

barthelemy : yes absolutely. The breakdown was our enemy this match, smt we were so strong at VS AUS especially and also ARG.

Here's a notion for my disgruntled Samoan interlocutors: you get mad when we say France played bad because you'd like to think it's rather the Samoan pressure that caused it.
Here's a different scope on the whole story: what if France REALLY DID PLAY MEDIOCRE (per se, an isolated fact of the game), and Samoa played well too and applied pressure too though; and you're completely overrating your team insinuating Samoa was SO GOOD France lost its ways ?



It seems to me like a small team (or its fans rather) are taking a whole lot too much credit from these past tests...stay humble fellas, know who you are, continue to cheer for your team.
(now this post should get me all kinds of fine poetry riposts )

 

[Tony Manx]

Here was a game where the Samoans were fired and wanted it so much more than the French and, I believe, this close win will do the French team a world of good.

They started each half off as if they were asleep (or that victory was a mere formaility) but they fought and toughed out a victory over hard, and sometimes brutal (in a good way!), opposition who gave it their all.

With some clear thinking and better goal kicking, Samoa could have won this one and maybe even deserved to!

This kind of win is not something one would associate with the French of old but like the great golfers, great teams have to learn how to win when not playing wel and Les Bleus did herel.

From a quasi-neutral pespective I would rate the match as a very interesting one but hardly great!

PS I would have two citings for this weekend one for an AB and one for the Samoan....both for stiff arms and were they not both from wing forwards?

 

[Big Ewis]

^ I agree with that too. Samoans obviously fired up as hell, you could tell in the rucks, in the breakdown - it's like we were playing standard intensity and speed and they were fighting for their lives !!!...the difference of rate was obvious to the naked eye...even in the scrums, I thought we should have destroyed them, but they were pushing like crazy and actually won a few.

"Interesting" is a word than comes to mind yes to define this match, yes...

 

[jaunard06]

That was a very tense and unpredictable match as I expected. Samoa played superbly, but I believe they were a little bit too tired at the end, this brought on their side a little bit more indiscipline and allowed us the win.
France had a slight edge on the bench, and this made probably the difference.
Samoa kept the ball but our defense was heroic, if we can hold off Samoa this way then we can expect to behave well for the upcoming 6N !
Usually we would have lost such a game following a physical collapse but we improved a lot in this area, now we can really compte with SH teams on a regular fashion and not just once or twice...

Our lineout and mauls were excellent, scrummaging was on par with Samoa despite being "one man down" (in weight !), but on rucks Samoa reigned all over the match which was expectable given their physical strength and speed. Technically they also improved a lot in this area of play, this is how they beat Wales which is IMO the best NH team for that. But we didn't commited to many fouls and replaced correctly after each ruck so that's really good.

I was really stressed and after the beginnning of the 2nd half thought Samoa was in for another win but now I'm really, really happy of the result ! I feared that match much more than the 2 others and it seems I was right, Samoa was from far the best team of France's autumn your.

 

[Big Ewis]

Our toughest matchup, no doubt jaunard.
PSA said it last week (it seemed a little exaggerated but turned out to be true), Michalak admitted it at the end of the match...and the result obviously showed this too.
First match of the 3 we'd trailed at half time.

As you said, a lot of excellent elements in this French squad, highlighted of course by the 3 wins and first two with impressive score lines.
Being the obvious favorites now for the 6N, I'm curious to see how strong we can remain - and on the other side, what Samoa can do against the SH top3 .

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I couldn't watch the game, only a small portion of the first half. I got the feeling, out of those few minutes, that it was by far the most physical game for France so far, and that the Samoan forwards were dominating. The shot on Mermoz was cheap, and was deserving of a penalty (at a stretch), but I don't think it deserves a citing.
Something I have to ask, and the enswer of which I can't trust to the french media: given that possession and territory were both on the Samoan side, and that the game was won on penalties: how was the refereeing?

 

[jaunard06]

Being the obvious favorites now for the 6N, I'm curious to see how strong we can remain - and on the other side, what Samoa can do against the SH top3 .

You look a little bit overconfident: Ireland has been impressive also against Argentina. They are also there - I sould say "as usual" - in Hcup.

how was the refereeing?

Not so good. The referee seemed to regularly change his mind about which degree of severity he should apply to such or such infrigement: this could mean that he would immediatly sanction ruck diving on one side and not do it the minute after for the other side.
He was sometimes very harsh, sometimes incredibly laxist on some gestures that put player's integrity in question.

Fortunately there was eventually no real player injured...

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Being the obvious favorites now for the 6N, I'm curious to see how strong we can remain - and on the other side, what Samoa can do against the SH top3 .

I too would have France favorites - but just remember, you couldn't beat Ireland or England at home, and this year you've got to play them away.

 

[Big Ewis]

jaunard06

yeah remember when he let (was it Papé ?) grab the ball in the breakdown after a Samoan ruck ? Gives him the signal it's anybody's ball, Papé takes it and runs and he's penalized :lol:.

Ireland (and this I'm happy to say) is absolutely there as well this year in the 6N. As a fan, I'm very very happy to have seen them play with both heart and skill, both of the most elite kind.

France: Grand Slam ? Just asking, not being pretentious at all. Just asking.
Trigger-happy, fast conclusion or a solid possibility?
And man, I'm not all that confident, trust me !! I'm very much aware that this is France we're talkin about ! I'm just optimistic and pushing it to the limits of rationality.

UlsterRugby2012

Right. But our squad is way different this time around. Some changes, but mostly mentally. It's just a different French squad. I don't think England's gotten any better since last year, and that game in Paris we should've won. Not being a sore loser at all, England has beaten us consistently and props to them. But that 2012 6N match - we had the better side, just a rough start and a stupid game for us the rest of the way. I remember even Servat saying after the game "it's silly because we had the better side on paper, but hey....etc..."

 

[Surefire]

I couldn't watch the game, only a small portion of the first half. I got the feeling, out of those few minutes, that it was by far the most physical game for France so far, and that the Samoan forwards were dominating. The shot on Mermoz was cheap, and was deserving of a penalty (at a stretch), but I don't think it deserves a citing.
Something I have to ask, and the enswer of which I can't trust to the french media: given that possession and territory were both on the Samoan side, and that the game was won on penalties: how was the refereeing?

Ze, I did not find the ref. to be sided in one direction, however I could be seeing that through fan's vision. The commentators seemed to think there was no consistency in his decisions, but the game was pretty fast and loose.

 

[Maxwell]

Very happy with the Manu performance. Two weeks in a row the opposition rarely threatened our try line and only scored of an intercept and chargedown respectively. That speaks volumes.

Good to see squad players get a go and do well.

A shame we couldnt play the Wallabies again now.

I was very underwhelmed by France and always consider them the best of the 6N but maybe thats due to our boys performance.

Its ironic that last week we had the fairest ref we'vehad in years and he was a Frenchman. This week we get this Irish dude who admittedly was legless for both teams. Still a condescending nature the way refs talk to our guys, that must stop.

 

[Maxwell]

Stupid match.
Good efforts Samoa, that physicality sure is affecting the games...
We played very good defence, though they were so strong physically they would penetrate every once in a while...
Breakdown play sucked for us, they had some good moments.

I loved the fat bearded guy strangling Papé (again Papé) but with TWO HANDS this time...very pro.
Pisi as far as I'm concerned (his last two matches) doesn't know what a penalty kick is. And don't anyone dare get ****** off, you've seen the last two games as I have, not my problem, his problem...
I guess the "bad" France showed up, and though Samoa showed up (again, excellent 3 matches), no upset occured.

2 tries to 1 Samoa. Their first try was lucky, our try was on a major mistake (Michalak was RIGHT THERE, never ever should have kicked) so no glory.
Their second was fine.
Thought we at least should have scored our second, but it never happened. Could have been on a few occasions, the last Huget effort should have been it but...meh...I'll take the win, and 3 in a row now. A rarity in French int'l rugby.

You didnt score any champ we gave you one and you never looked like scoring another.

 

[Maxwell]

noooooo, you're reading into things that aren't there ! ohhhhhlalaaaa !
It wasn't exactly an Allblacks type try :lol:!
It took skill for sure, and it was legal. It's a try, but obviously not your standard try where a team's attack is just perfectly set and outplays the defence...nothing like the stuff happening in Ireland earlier today for e.g.

I can't exactly compliment Samoa a whole lot...it's amazing they got Wales, it's very very good they got close in Paris...but in this particular game neither team deserved a whole lot of praise. I hope that's not too classless (well I couldn't care less really, there's nothing wrong with what I said but ppl are weird enough to be offended by anything these days...)...I AM wearing a very classy pair of boxers at the moment though.

I'm curious to hear what the Samoa fans have to say this time to defend the Great Pisi and his magic boot.

I hate false humility. I'm not gonna say "oh WOW fantastic match guys wow !!" when there's no good reason to. I'm impressed by Samoa overall, who the hell isn't this past November ?! I'm looking forward to seeing what they've got and what they can do against other Tier 1 nations, because in Cardiff and Paris they've impressed a lot. But those are just two games.
France looked FANTASTIC in the first two, mediocre in this one; maybe they'll suck in Feb, dunno.

Agree with you about Pisi on this tour but he's done well before. Then again its not soccer but rugby. Run, pass, catch tackle. Yes France won the kicking competition hand down lol

 

[Big Ewis]

^ and the match too, wasn't 43-5 this time, but you've yet to defeat France. Better luck next time ^_^.

P.S.: watch the match again about us not scoring another...it's interesting what blind bias can do to simple minded folk.

Listen, all I'm sayin is, pimpin good performance guys but you LOST THE GAME. You know, the exact inverse of WIINNIIIINGGGGZZZ.
I hate to have to come to this, but I've been pushed far too often now on this wretched thread.


YOU LOST THE MAAAAAATCH GUYS.

Now go the fk back home in your lovely Island, calm the fk down, regroup, and maybe try not to make this a 2-game losing streak, or more. I understand rugby is all there is there, literally ALL THERE IS. I understand you came CLOSE to upsetting a world power.
But you must understand also the following: the essential, the whole point of playing 80minutes, was a FAILURE. YOU DIDN'T WIN.

Or as teh great Yoda would put it:
"Win...you did not."

Stop making everybody despise you with your scornful/wasteful comments, be gracious in defeat, stay humble; and stop annoying the fk out of everyone on here days AFTER the freaking match !
This guy !!! God !!!! :lol:

 

[psychic duck]

^ and the match too, wasn't 43-5 this time, but you've yet to defeat France. Better luck next time ^_^.

P.S.: watch the match again about us not scoring another...it's interesting what blind bias can do to simple minded folk.

Listen, all I'm sayin is, pimpin good performance guys but you LOST THE GAME. You know, the exact inverse of WIINNIIIINGGGGZZZ.
I hate to have to come to this, but I've been pushed far too often now on this wretched thread.


YOU LOST THE MAAAAAATCH GUYS.

Now go the fk back home in your lovely Island, calm the fk down, regroup, and maybe try not to make this a 2-game losing streak, or more. I understand rugby is all there is there, literally ALL THERE IS. I understand you came CLOSE to upsetting a world power.
But you must understand also the following: the essential, the whole point of playing 80minutes, was a FAILURE. YOU DIDN'T WIN.

Or as teh great Yoda would put it:
"Win...you did not."

Stop making everybody despise you with your scornful/wasteful comments, be gracious in defeat, stay humble; and stop annoying the fk out of everyone on here days AFTER the freaking match !
This guy !!! God !!!! :lol:

This sentence is particularly ironic given your post above and others previously.

By the way you talk about being "humble" and yet you make one of the least humble winner posts in the history of rugby forums, which makes you look a complete twit.