[EOYT] England vs. Australia 02/11/13

[SuperEagle]

When Flood came on, did he come on at 12, or did Farrell move across to 12?

 

[ratsapprentice]

He came on at 12.

 

[SuperEagle]

It was not a straight tackle at all. Proof: third pic.

Hmm... not convinced by that at all and those pics are misleading. You need to watch it again in real time (32mins) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL32cEZLQMU

Toomua runs diagonally towards the sticks, straight at Twelvetrees and away from Youngs. 12T wasn't marking anyone else, so Toomua was his man on a 1 vs 1.

That said, everyone makes mistakes and I completely agree that SL should stick with 12T. The backs need more time together if they're going to start firing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Flood went to 12.

 

[dullonien]

Am I the only one who thinks Twelvetrees isn't at fault for the Aus try?

I made this:

Genia and Hooper are collectively marked by no less than 4 forwards (Lawes, Binny, Robshaw and Mako).

First picture shows Genia starting the mis-pass. Hooper is clearly marked by Robshaw and Mako.

Second picture shows Toomua receiving the pass and Tom Youngs stepping into the defensive line. What the heck is he even trying? Not only does he create a gap for Toomua, he doesn't get anywhere near Hooper either.

In any case, as you can see in the last picture, Twelvetrees is coming at such an odd angle (since he's tackling a player further up the attacking line than he should be) against a player that has gotten really low (and is short to boot, giving him a really low centre of gravity) and the rest is history.

The graphic I made is a vague representation. I may have gotten some of the perspectives wrong. Toomua may be slightly wider and Youngs/12T slightly tighter (I was only able to predict their starting positions). But I just hope it demonstrates how much Tom Youngs ballsed up given the numbers, and how Twelvetrees is probably taking far too much flack for it.

That's still a tackle 36 should make at international level. The 3rd and 4th pictures show that he get's in a rubbish position with too much weight on his heels, meaning he was always going to be knocked over. He needed to keep his depth a little more than he did.

However, I get your point about Youngs. Youngs certainly could have helped 36, and double tackled Toomua.

 

[Big Ewis]

I was bored, not much to do, it's easy to make, so why not?

no need to justify ! But it's such an exaggeration of diehard Rugby fans it was just too over-the-top to not comment on !
Like, if you told that to someone outside of Rugby or sports in general, they'd crack up !

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

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<tbody>[TR]
[TD="class: l"]1(1)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

NEW ZEALAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]93.05[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]2(2)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

SOUTH AFRICA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]87.86[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]3(3)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

ENGLAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]86.31 (85.76)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]4(4)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

AUSTRALIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]83.70 (84.25)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]5(5)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

FRANCE[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]81.59[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


New ranking points. England gaining good ground while Aus has slowly slipped from being a hair's width behind SA only before June.

The good news for Aus is that they would have to lose to Italy AND EITHER OF France or Wales have to beat NZ or SA respectively on the weekend for them to drop to 5th. Stranger things have happened I suppose though while I wouldn't put it past France or Wales to come out victorious I can't see Aus go down to Itlay?

 

[Jaguares]

Am I the only one who thinks Twelvetrees isn't at fault for the Aus try?

I made this:

Genia and Hooper are collectively marked by no less than 4 forwards (Lawes, Binny, Robshaw and Mako).

First picture shows Genia starting the mis-pass. Hooper is clearly marked by Robshaw and Mako.

Second picture shows Toomua receiving the pass and Tom Youngs stepping into the defensive line. What the heck is he even trying? Not only does he create a gap for Toomua, he doesn't get anywhere near Hooper either.

In any case, as you can see in the last picture, Twelvetrees is coming at such an odd angle (since he's tackling a player further up the attacking line than he should be) against a player that has gotten really low (and is short to boot, giving him a really low centre of gravity) and the rest is history.

The graphic I made is a vague representation. I may have gotten some of the perspectives wrong. Toomua may be slightly wider and Youngs/12T slightly tighter (I was only able to predict their starting positions). But I just hope it demonstrates how much Tom Youngs ballsed up given the numbers, and how Twelvetrees is probably taking far too much flack for it.

Good point, but that doesn't mean that the defense of 36 is a disaster

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[TD="class: l"]

NEW ZEALAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]93.05[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]2(2)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

SOUTH AFRICA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]87.86[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]3(3)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

ENGLAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]86.31 (85.76)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]4(4)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

AUSTRALIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]83.70 (84.25)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]5(5)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

FRANCE[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]81.59[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


New ranking points. England gaining good ground while Aus has slowly slipped from being a hair's width behind SA only before June.

The good news for Aus is that they would have to lose to Italy AND EITHER OF France or Wales have to beat NZ or SA respectively on the weekend for them to drop to 5th. Stranger things have happened I suppose though while I wouldn't put it past France or Wales to come out victorious I can't see Aus go down to Itlay?

It's too unfair to Wallabies, they don't deserve to lose. It was because of referee

 

[j-dawg]

No doubt plenty of decisions went Englands way, but the amount of people calling for Clancy's head is ridiculous. Decisions go either way plenty of times in plenty of matches. I recall one decision where the ref pinged genia for a knock on at the ruck. In my opinion, it wasnt a knock on as I dont think Genia ever lost contact with the ball - but shortly after farrell intercepted and could have been away and under the posts. If the knock on wasn't called there was potential for a try right there. Point is you just don't know how things are going to play out and how decisions are going to effect the team.

On Englands two tries, if Clancy had decided no try to Farrels score I would say fair enough. There seemed to be some slight obstruction but I also feel Moore and whoever else was there could have made the tackle if they were urgent enough. On the second try, I can't see how it is dubious. Could someone please tell me, maybe Vunipola was offside with the charge down?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

No doubt plenty of decisions went Englands way, but the amount of people calling for Clancy's head is ridiculous. Decisions go either way plenty of times in plenty of matches. I recall one decision where the ref pinged genia for a knock on at the ruck. In my opinion, it wasnt a knock on as I dont think Genia ever lost contact with the ball - but shortly after farrell intercepted and could have been away and under the posts. If the knock on wasn't called there was potential for a try right there. Point is you just don't know how things are going to play out and how decisions are going to effect the team.

On Englands two tries, if Clancy had decided no try to Farrels score I would say fair enough. There seemed to be some slight obstruction but I also feel Moore and whoever else was there could have made the tackle if they were urgent enough. On the second try, I can't see how it is dubious. Could someone please tell me, maybe Vunipola was offside with the charge down?

The reasoning for the second try not being allowed is that it was created all the way back when Mike Brown caught the ball with his feet in touch. Apparently the fact he got away with that means that all the work England put in to score the try after that doesn't count. Or maybe there was something about Ashton knocking on when we were passing across the field.

 

[ABs2011]

It's too unfair to Wallabies, they don't deserve to lose. It was because of referee

Games get influenced by refs all the time, sometimes it goes in your favour sometimes it doesn't. Before the excuse to why OZ was losing was injuries and unavailablities, now its the ref, what next?? At some stage don't we just need to recognize Australia are in a pretty bad slump and are actually quite a poor side relative to their past??

I do appreciate the fact that you support your side no matter what though...True fan!!

 

[j-dawg]

The reasoning for the second try not being allowed is that it was created all the way back when Mike Brown caught the ball with his feet in touch. Apparently the fact he got away with that means that all the work England put in to score the try after that doesn't count. Or maybe there was something about Ashton knocking on when we were passing across the field.

Lol. Aussies.

 

[Big Ewis]

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[TD="class: l"]1(1)[/TD]
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NEW ZEALAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]93.05[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]2(2)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

SOUTH AFRICA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]87.86[/TD]
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[TD="class: l"]3(3)[/TD]
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ENGLAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]86.31 (85.76)[/TD]
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[TD="class: l"]

AUSTRALIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]83.70 (84.25)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]5(5)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

FRANCE[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]81.59[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


New ranking points. England gaining good ground while Aus has slowly slipped from being a hair's width behind SA only before June.

The good news for Aus is that they would have to lose to Italy AND EITHER OF France or Wales have to beat NZ or SA respectively on the weekend for them to drop to 5th. Stranger things have happened I suppose though while I wouldn't put it past France or Wales to come out victorious I can't see Aus go down to Itlay?

right....especially France for you, REMEMBER ??!!
THE OATH !!!!!!

Anyways, congrats England, that ranking looking very flattering at the moment !!
...damn lucky poms....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If Folau caught a ball, in touch, and then Australia scored shortly afterwards then I'd be a bit miffed too, to be fair.

 

[j-dawg]

If Folau caught a ball, in touch, and then Australia scored shortly afterwards then I'd be a bit miffed too, to be fair.

Thats true. If England were playing a crucial game and, god forbid, they kept getting penalised by a certain English-hating, water throwing referee - lets call him Jeeve Welsh - well, I wouldn't be very happy.

But in all seriousness, any decision that goes Englands way until 2047 is clearly Karma for Cueto's try.

 

[Chikwa]

Lol. Aussies.

If it was the Springboks that were at the wrong end of the clearly dubious referring.The entire world of rugby would have been under siege. The Aussies have more rooted underlying issues which need to be addressed and therefore should not focus on the ref.

 

[SelimNiai]

Ignoring the whole "Brown had his foot in touch" thing, I have no complaints about the Farrell try. It wasn't that much of a block and Moore still had the chance to make the tackle, he just made an arse of it. I called it a try when I watched it at the time.To me it bared more than a slight resemblance to Cuthberts try in the 1st Lions Test and that was given with no issues from our side

 

[Wasps For Life]

To be honest. It was crap refereeing.. But it wasn't like Australia were all over us that because the ref missed a foot in touch. That wasn't the reason England won.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I just hate the fact that Brown being in touch somehow negates all the work that England then put in to get the try. The fact that Brown was in touch doesn't negate all the work England did after. This also ignore Farrel missing 3 kicks and a potential advantage where he itnercepted a pass not being played also ignored. Sorry but the Aussie try was lucky too (normally 36 would not let that past) and had their fair share of getting away with SERIOUS offsides throughout the game. Fact is Australia could not put England away and really did not deserve a win. At MOST they could claim they didn't deserve to lose but in no way did they put in a performance better than england.

 

[psychic duck]

I just hate the fact that Brown being in touch somehow negates all the work that England then put in to get the try. The fact that Brown was in touch doesn't negate all the work England did after. This also ignore Farrel missing 3 kicks and a potential advantage where he itnercepted a pass not being played also ignored. Sorry but the Aussie try was lucky too (normally 36 would not let that past) and had their fair share of getting away with SERIOUS offsides throughout the game. Fact is Australia could not put England away and really did not deserve a win. At MOST they could claim they didn't deserve to lose but in no way did they put in a performance better than england.

Ashton fumbled a forward pass from a quick tap on that play and there was another fumble in it as well. It was also play where Australia also were playing 14 men with Fardy down. It was hardly impressive stuff of an England 2002 backline vintage. It was an extremely flukey passage of play thanks to poor refereeing to win that 90 metres.