English dissent towards the ERC now official

[lucky number 7]

I do think that it's unfair that all but 1 rabodirect team automatically qualify for the HC. allowing the 8 best teams of the previous season seems like a much more fair system.

However, this doesn't excuse the RFU's petulance. The Heineken Cup's format hasn't changed in the last 12 years. I didn't see the RFU threatening to drop out when Wasps and leicester were winning ***les. Their problem isn't really that an excess of Rabo teams get in. They just have their knickers in a twist because their teams aren't winning. the fact of the matter is Leinster would've won the last 2 Heineken Cups regardless of whether 8 or 11 rabo teams got in.

He's ****ing back!

 

[welshglory]

I do think that it's unfair that all but 1 rabodirect team automatically qualify for the HC. allowing the 8 best teams of the previous season seems like a much more fair system.

However, this doesn't excuse the RFU's petulance. The Heineken Cup's format hasn't changed in the last 12 years. I didn't see the RFU threatening to drop out when Wasps and leicester were winning ***les. Their problem isn't really that an excess of Rabo teams get in. They just have their knickers in a twist because their teams aren't winning. the fact of the matter is Leinster would've won the last 2 Heineken Cups regardless of whether 8 or 11 rabo teams got in.

The RFU aren't threatening now are they? :huh:

You're getting the RFU and PRL mixed up.

The English and French actually have a lot more to be angry about. The English for example get more money from participating in the LV cup!

And i think you'll actually find that when Leicester and Wasps were winning they did say things, especially Dallaglio and MJ.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

The RFU aren't threatening now are they? :huh:

You're getting the RFU and PRL mixed up.

The English and French actually have a lot more to be angry about. The English for example get more money from participating in the LV cup!

And i think you'll actually find that when Leicester and Wasps were winning they did say things, especially Dallaglio and MJ.

True enough about the PRL/RFU thing. I had that wrong.

But if they were threatening to drop out when Wasps were winning why haven't they done it yet? It's been long enough. This lot are all fart and no poo as far as I can see.

 

[Conal]

This lot are all fart and no poo as far as I can see.

this is my new favorite phrase

 

[welshglory]

True enough about the PRL/RFU thing. I had that wrong.

But if they were threatening to drop out when Wasps were winning why haven't they done it yet? It's been long enough. This lot are all fart and no poo as far as I can see.

The English and the French almost did pull out in 2006 or 2007

 

[Bucephalus]

The English have every right to take this stance, they compete week in week out in a league which has relegation and promotion and there is a bit more at stake like maintaining league status, a play off place and qualifying for the HC.

The Irish, Welsh and Scots "play"/"partake" in a combination (its not a league) and 75% of the Welsh for instance qualify without much effort (Sorry Newport but you are crap), both Scottish and Italian sides qualify and could be in the bottom 4 of the "combination" (merit table) and that aint right! Scottish and Italian sides are getting qualification money for nothing!

I'd leave the comp now and let the sponsor decide! You watch Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy fall into line then!

No mention of France in this post, their stance will be the same as England!

 

[Feicarsinn]

It's like Mite on crack.

 

[lucky number 7]

The English have every right to take this stance, they compete week in week out in a league which has relegation and promotion and there is a bit more at stake like maintaining league status, a play off place and qualifying for the HC.

The Irish, Welsh and Scots "play"/"partake" in a combination (its not a league) and 75% of the Welsh for instance qualify without much effort (Sorry Newport but you are crap), both Scottish and Italian sides qualify and could be in the bottom 4 of the "combination" (merit table) and that aint right! Scottish and Italian sides are getting qualification money for nothing!

I'd leave the comp now and let the sponsor decide! You watch Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy fall into line then!

No mention of France in this post, their stance will be the same as England!

Fall into line...lol

You talk like you've a degree of authority....Who's the most successful team in Europe these last 4 years...Leinster ..We win it because we're better than you..not because of our Q system

 

[Feicarsinn]

The English have every right to take this stance, they compete week in week out in a league which has relegation and promotion and there is a bit more at stake like maintaining league status, a play off place and qualifying for the HC.

The Irish, Welsh and Scots "play"/"partake" in a combination (its not a league) and 75% of the Welsh for instance qualify without much effort (Sorry Newport but you are crap), both Scottish and Italian sides qualify and could be in the bottom 4 of the "combination" (merit table) and that aint right! Scottish and Italian sides are getting qualification money for nothing!

I'd leave the comp now and let the sponsor decide! You watch Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy fall into line then!

No mention of France in this post, their stance will be the same as England!

Well okay, I do want to address some of the issues in this post.

Firstly, you seem to make the assumption that the English game would be fine without European competition. Personally, I disagree massively. The AP would take a fairly bloody significant financial hit should the Heineken Cup fall through. Considering that most of the top tier clubs in England are already in the red, losing that source of income would be very detrimental to the English game. I don't think that Premier rugby has the kind of financial strength you assume (ie. that to force the rest of Europe to back down.) As is English clubs have struggled to bring the same quality of player in as the French clubs over the past number of years, and should they lose their European source of revenue, you can expect to see more and more English internationals plying their trade in France.

Secondly, you've said that the French clubs are taking the same stance as their English counterparts. This simply isn't true. A number of LNR representatives have stated that they want to stay in the Heineken Cup and aren't interested in any sort of Anglo-French league, which seems to be what Premier rugby is relying on should they not be able to come to an agreement with the ERC. If the French reach an agreement to stay in the Heineken Cup, Premier Rugby is up **** creek without a paddle. In 1999 the Heineken Cup showed that it could still be a viable product/competition without English involvement. Should push come to shove, it could survive without the English clubs (who haven't been overly successful in recent years) for a while yet.

Finally, no need for the attitude. Sure Dragons aren't the best, but remember when Quins were humbled by Connacht last season. If the Premiership champions lose away to a Celtic League basement club then it's best advised to keep stuhm.

 

[smartcooky]

The English have every right to take this stance, they compete week in week out in a league which has relegation and promotion and there is a bit more at stake like maintaining league status, a play off place and qualifying for the HC.

So this is relevant how exactly?

If you are arguing that the Pro12 teams have an advantage because they can afford to rest players and the AP teams cannot, they you would be completely wrong.

AP teams still have to rest players at some stage because both iRB Player Welfare Regulations, and the accord that the RFU has with Premier Rugby Ltd limits the number of matches in a season that players are allowed to play. This mean that teams in both the AP and the Pro12 cannot put their top 15 players on the park week in week out. When and how teams rest their players is surely their business, and not the business of teams that don't even play in the same competition.

The Irish, Welsh and Scots "play"/"partake" in a combination (its not a league)

That is a preposterous stand to take.

That definition would mean Super Rugby is not a league, the Heineken Cup is not a league, and nor is the Amlin Challenge Cup. The UEFA Champions League is not a league either.

I'd leave the comp now and let the sponsor decide! You watch Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy fall into line then!

No mention of France in this post, their stance will be the same as England!

Fiscal suicide is what you are suggesting.

 

[Teh Mite]

It's like Mite on crack.

Don't you bloody start on me.

 

[Bucephalus]

Fall into line...lol

You talk like you've a degree of authority....Who's the most successful team in Europe these last 4 years...Leinster ..We win it because we're better than you..not because of our Q system

You win because you have a pretty good side which doesnt need to compete, it plays in a merit table with no worries about relegation, it will qualify for the HC with no effort as 75% of the Micks do, 75% of the English dont! Alas, the argument is lost on you. I am happy to debate rugby issues with thems that know but keyboard warriors are a different matter.

 

[Teh Mite]

Ah, casual racism. That should liven things up somewhat.

 

[Feicarsinn]

You win because you have a pretty good side which doesnt need to compete, it plays in a merit table with no worries about relegation, it will qualify for the HC with no effort as 75% of the Micks do, 75% of the English dont! Alas, the argument is lost on you. I am happy to debate rugby issues with thems that know but keyboard warriors are a different matter.

Interestingly enough Tomas O'Leary has came out saying that while the AP is a tougher league, from a player's perspective you're in much better shape than you are when you're being wrapped in cotton wool by the provinces and the IRFU. Here's the quote:

Even if you were deemed the number one scrum-half at Munster," he said, "you might only play once in every two or three weeks."
The Cork native says the increase in his playing load has left him in the best shape his has felt in years.
"Hopefully, in the next couple of weeks, you'll see that I'm sharper and much improved," he said.

Now this is interesting as it essentially goes against what the English clubs having been saying recently. If the more regular game time actually has their players in better shape (and I'm aware that O'Leary may not be singing off that hymn sheet in 15 games or so) then surely they should be doing better in Europe than their European counterparts.

In any case, I've always maintained that AP clubs problem in Europe has far more to do with the salary cap than with Rabo clubs getting more easily and being more rested. It's a case of getting your houser in order before you go complaining about everyone else.

 

[Peat]

Think that's one thing to say that now, at the beginning of the league, when players are a little short of match fitness and need games to get back into the swing of it; whether he'll feel the same come the end of the season is another matter.

 

[big ginger 8]

You win because you have a pretty good side which doesnt need to compete, it plays in a merit table with no worries about relegation, it will qualify for the HC with no effort as 75% of the Micks do, 75% of the English dont! Alas, the argument is lost on you. I am happy to debate rugby issues with thems that know but keyboard warriors are a different matter.

Watch the Leinster Munster game this weekend then tell they there's no compition in the league.

 

[Groundhog]

You win because you have a pretty good side which doesnt need to compete, it plays in a merit table with no worries about relegation, it will qualify for the HC with no effort as 75% of the Micks do, 75% of the English dont! Alas, the argument is lost on you. I am happy to debate rugby issues with thems that know but keyboard warriors are a different matter.

Apologies but how don't they compete. The fact is they have enough depth in squad to beat most sides with a team of highly talented youngsters and come second in the league without difficulty (Damn Ospreys with their winning). If you have a squad of this depth why wouldn't you use it

 

[lucky number 7]

You win because you have a pretty good side which doesnt need to compete, it plays in a merit table with no worries about relegation, it will qualify for the HC with no effort as 75% of the Micks do, 75% of the English dont! Alas, the argument is lost on you. I am happy to debate rugby issues with thems that know but keyboard warriors are a different matter.

Our 2nd string would easily get top 4 in the AP.

Do you watch much of the ML?

We're class..Genuinely class.

 

[Hill-Back-Dallaglio]

Our 2nd string would easily get top 4 in the AP.

Do you watch much of the ML?

We're class..Genuinely class.

What a load of tripe. Your seconds got demolished by Connaught last week. I'd like to see how Leinster would do if they had to compete in a serious domestic league instead of being allowed play their best 15 about once a season against Munster. If Leinster had had as tough and competitive a season as Northampton they wouldn't have won the Heineken Cup in 2011.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Our 2nd string would easily get top 4 in the AP.

Do you watch much of the ML?

We're class..Genuinely class.

Without wanting to get drawn in to all of the willy waggling going on in here, I don't agree with this, if only because the 2nd XV scrum would be absolute gash vs the likes of the Tigers pack.
England vs Ireland in the Six Nations showed what can happen when, despite having good players elsewhere, your scrum is getting bummed.