• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

England’s tour to Australia thread

Someone else suggested that EJ may have lost the dressing room.
I'm sure there's an element of that and I doubt the players have faith in his under qualified coaching team either.

But fundamentally Jones is unsuited to what he's doing now. He's an immediate impact guy - a turnaround specialist, the only previous time he's even lasted 4 years in a job was with the Wobblies 01-05. There's nothing wrong in that - it's sometimes what you need as we saw when he joined us. But people with that mindset either get bored very quickly or lose their impact very quickly as what was incredibly dynamic and radical quickly becomes the norm.

After 19 we needed someone to build to the next level by evolution which his track record says isn't his thing. Now, nearly seven years in, we're basically asking someone with skill set A to undertake job B. That's the crux of it.
 
Last edited:
Cause if u run with the ball, Wallabies are gonna score 10 tries
Vine Ok GIF
 
At which point it could be argued that its deteriorated to the stage where A is needed.

I think England could even do okay at the world cup (it could also be another disaster) but I do not believe England/RFU have a long term strategy, are not doing all they can to give themseleves the best chance of winning the world cup and are not leaving sustainable systems or failsafes/fallbacks for the future. I'm not blaming Jones for all of that either, it runs deeper and is far more complex.
 
On Itoje, I kind of agree with those saying he could well be tired or lacking in motivation. The screaming was weird and I wouldn't be surprised if EJ told him to do something like it. Can you imagine how it feels to be a world class lock during the tactics meeting and the head coach tells you that your role is to scream at the opposition?

Someone else suggested that EJ may have lost the dressing room. That wouldn't surprise me as unlike the B&I Lions tour to NZ when apparently Sexton and Farrell basically took over and ignored Gatland, England players know that if they want to play in the world cup they have to stay on EJ's good side. With the B&I Lions tour once the tour was over Gatland's influence on the players was over. Yes he could have dropped Sexton and Farrell in theory, but it was never going to happen. However, Jones has shown repeatedly he will bin players who oppose him unless his hand is forced. If you were in the dressing room and you know you can't actively disagree with the coach, then I imagine we would see what we're seeing now. Players lacking in motivation and energy.
I can see that at club level, but if you're lacking 'motivation and energy' when playing at the highest level for your country, I think it raises different questions.

If it were me, pride in my own performance would always be more important Han how I felt about the coach.
 
Little late to the party here...

But I did see a few things at the weekend which seem a little different

First off, never seen JVP play before, and the speed with which he flung the ball from the ruck was fantastic to see. A SH who just gets it out and says do what you want with that mate to his FH is invaluable at creating space, look who much better England's centres looked with actual time on the ball to make passes, best example is if Care/Youngs were passing (they have other strengths for sure, not slabbering at either overly) then the Marchant tip on pass that nearly set Arundell away for 2nd time doesnt happen

Arundell is enough said, but a very nice 5 minute cameo. Obviously wont be bouncing two players to score every week but he looks more polished than I originally thought

I actually thought Jonny Hill, barr the hair pulling, had a good game. He wasnt always on the forefront, but he looked much beter in the carry than this time last year, his clearouts were excellent, some good lineout and maul positions, he's come on quite markedly since his England debut
Itoje may have been quiet but didnt seem to help that for some reason Jones had him stationed out on the left wing in attack? Again I think ala Underhill and Lawes, and now Hill, his carrying has really developed, good footwork in contact and he can be very handy in the tight spaces. Might have seen more of him out there to be fair If england looked structured

Also Billy V looked a different beast to the man from a year ago. Slimmer, his step had real energy behind it, I liked what I saw. That Billy starts week in week out for England. ANd i say that really liking Alex Dombrandt

On the downsides, there seems to be a real slow learning from this England team, surely by now they have to realise their new out half actually runs with the ball, you dont see NZ leaving Barrett behind by just assuming a 10 doesnt run. GET WITH THE KID
This series for EJ will come down to the last game and if England can find some shape and confidence within it by then.. a 3-0 loss and he's likely gone, but more than anything people want to see the attack show some purpose. However defensively I thought England were so so poor at the weekend, minimal linespeed at times, and the worst was an inability to adapt their defensive patterns when Australia kept running through and o the fringes of the ruck to create quick ball and momentum.
 
I can see that at club level, but if you're lacking 'motivation and energy' when playing at the highest level for your country, I think it raises different questions.

If it were me, pride in my own performance would always be more important Han how I felt about the coach.
Dunno, if you've been playing for pride for a while and it gets you nowhere then I can understand it gets harder to motivate yourself.
 
Dunno, if you've been playing for pride for a while and it gets you nowhere then I can understand it gets harder to motivate yourself.
Being jaded is a real thing a lot of these guys have been a part of the setup for a long time with loads of caps. The callup might give your a boost at first but when you've demoralised for a long time it can make little difference.

Look at Cricket we're playing with virtually the same players but a change of management has completely turned around the team its not a coaching thing just a complete attitude. You see it a lot in sports just a fresh lookout can completely turnaround sides EJ originally, Chieka's original impact on Australia and Erasmus turned SA from no hopers to World Champions in less than a year.
 
I'd start Porter and shift Marchant to the wing for Joe C

(ideally I'd want a look at Freeman or Arundell, but I'm working in the realms of what EJ might realistically do, not just pipe dreams)
Just let March have a decent run for a while at 13 imo.

Find another solution, he needs to play there consistently for England for a bit
 
I'd play Joe C again. He didn't do a lot wrong and with better ball plus being brought into plays more, who knows? England have been lacking a bit of beef on the wing for a while and he does have that. It came out recently Siva Naulago was to be parachuted in (injured) to help with wing situation so at least Jones is starting to look outside his regulars.

Joe M on the other hand is nailed on 13 at the moment IMO, England just need an actual 12 (or several) to get significant game time and experience...
 
Just let March have a decent run for a while at 13 imo.

Find another solution, he needs to play there consistently for England for a bit
Yeah I want him to be our long term option at 13 too, just would rather a look at Porter in the centres than Joe on the wing again
 
I think we'll see the same team for this weekend. I think we'll see an improved performance.

Bar One change for Curry.
 
Last edited:
On Curry, that's something like his 3rd concussion in 5 months. Is that the start of some genuine cause for concern? Underhill also had a spate of concussions earlier in the season.

I'd like to see Willis given the nod for the next game. Nothing against Underhill who I'm a big fan of, but we've barely scratched the surface of what Willis might be capable of internationally. Ludlam would be another good option, but let's see what Willis can do.
 
With the concussion protocol now so long a player could be effectively ruled out of a series or competition, not sure how that sits with me not to mention potentials of nefarious tactics.

Surely in something like the world cup squad sizes will need to be massively increased?
 
I want Willis to start, but ill be cowering behind the couch everytime he goes near a ruck!!
 
On Curry, that's something like his 3rd concussion in 5 months. Is that the start of some genuine cause for concern? Underhill also had a spate of concussions earlier in the season.

I'd like to see Willis given the nod for the next game. Nothing against Underhill who I'm a big fan of, but we've barely scratched the surface of what Willis might be capable of internationally. Ludlam would be another good option, but let's see what Willis can do.
I noticed, Curry sent home, Francis (Wales) sent home, Whitelock (NZ) removed from squad, yet Sexton...Good to play....the mind boggles.
 
Eddie Jones' gameplan:
View attachment 14175
You are very salty it seems. Hopefully one day when Argentina isn't a tier 3 team you'll actually be able to beat England and gloat properly.

Until then why don't you leave the grown ups to discuss Eddie's actual gameplan:

Kick off
?????????

Half tome
????????

Hope one of our wingers magics a try
 

Latest posts

Top