England World Cup Squad

[Zed]

I would say they should make the semis,

Totally this. They had the muscle memory of winning. And while the Orcs and St Jonny got most of the press, over time they'd also played some pretty good rugby too.



Was that unopposed stuff?

Opposed.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Oh FFS.
As an England fan, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Owen Farrell gets a red card 10 minutes into the game and is banned for the next 1000 years.
I don't even care about the score/result. That outcome would be a result. We'd have a chance to get on with the rest of the tournament with our best players on the pitch.

Wow…your obsession with Owen Farrell runs deep

 

[BPM]

Currently for a 6N squad I'd want something like:

LP: Genge, Rodd, Obano - Obano just about edges out VRR for me by being younger. He'll be 32 come 2027 while VRR will be 34. Not impossible that he'll still be performing well at that age but he would certainly be on the older end of the spectrum. Too early to consider Baxter as a legitimate option.

HK: George, Dan, and literally whoever performs best in the next few months out of Langdon, Dolly, Frost, Walker, Blamire. That 3rd position is very much up for grabs, and Dan hasn't exactly nailed down the 2nd slot either. Special mention to Sam Riley who has looked seriously impressive in his limited chances at Quins. Him and Baxter are going to form some front row for them in the coming years.

TP: Sinckler, Stuart, Heyes - picks itself really on account of there not really being anyone else. I still have hope for Heyes; he is still a baby in terms of tightheads.

LK: Itoje, Martin, Chessum, Isiekwe - again I think it more or less picks itself. Far too early for Chessum Jr to be coming in and as Olyy said neither of Coles or Clarke really scream international quality. Jonny Hill could fight his way back in with a good start to the season. Will be 33 in 2027 so not a write off.

FL: Curry, Ludlam, Earl, Pearson - I could be forgetting someone but again, this pretty much picks itself.

N8: Mercer, Willis - I wouldn't be bringing in CCS yet. He's talented and has a lot of potential but he's young and raw. Didn't perform as well in the U20s as expected. Maybe if we bring back the whole apprentice thing but not otherwise.

SH: Mitchell, JvP, Warr - personally I'm really hoping to see Quirke get back to the form he was showing pre-injury. If he does then he's the pick of the bunch IMO, but on current form you can't pick him over Warr.

FH: Ford, M. Smith, F. Smith - Atkinson has a chance to force his way in here but personally I'd give the edge to Fin. In the long run it'll work against Atkinson that he's 2nd choice at Tigers while Fin is very much steering the ship at Saints.

IC: Kelly, Ojomoh - Atkinson could force his way in here but I think it's a little early for him.

OC: Lawrence, Dingwall - Both EJ and Borthwick seem to be very keen on Joseph Jr but personally I haven't really seen it yet. Would be happy to be proven wrong though. Will also say that in the long run I do see Lawrence as a 12 internationally; think his pace has been exposed a bit defensively in the 13 channel recently.

WG: Arundell, Murley, Freeman, Roebuck - Radwan probably the slightly controversial omission here but there are still some very noticeable holes in his game. I know there are holes in Arundell's too but Radwan is 5 years his senior.

FB: Steward, Malins - personally I don't like Malins being on the wing at all. He just doesn't have the athleticism for it. But at Bristol I expect he'll be playing pretty exclusively at 15 which I see as his best position.

That's 34 players. How do the apprentices work; are they technically part of the 36 or additional? If part of the 36 then bring in Baxter and CCS as apprentices. If not then bring in 2 of the nearly-theres I mentioned.

Some good shouts in here.

The cupboard is pretty bare when it comes to Tightheads right now, but it could change quite quickly. I still have hopes for Harper making a proper breakthrough at Sale and Fasogbon looks like an absolute beast in the making. Also what about Schickerling? I'm not a fan of residency picks, but it might be more of a 'needs must' situation.

The only other player I can think of who warrants a mention for a FB spot is Carpenter at Sale.

Funny that you'd be happy with Ojomoh but not with Seb Atkinson? Atkinson has been consistently good and getting plenty of game time. Ojomoh is in and out and inconsistent (possibly linked).

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Everyone is so excited about the Chile game that we haven't even got a match day thread yet

 

[Geordie]

Some good shouts in here.

The cupboard is pretty bare when it comes to Tightheads right now, but it could change quite quickly. I still have hopes for Harper making a proper breakthrough at Sale and Fasogbon looks like an absolute beast in the making. Also what about Schickerling? I'm not a fan of residency picks, but it might be more of a 'needs must' situation.

The only other player I can think of who warrants a mention for a FB spot is Carpenter at Sale.

Funny that you'd be happy with Ojomoh but not with Seb Atkinson? Atkinson has been consistently good and getting plenty of game time. Ojomoh is in and out and inconsistent (possibly linked).

Seb has been very good for Gloucester. If he continues his form at the start of this season he must be looked at.

 

[Scotty]

So over the first 2 years post WC these are who id like to be introduced(not all at once). Some i want just back to their best positions

Dan
Pearson (CCS but he isnt ready yet)
FSmith, MSmith(as 10)
Kelly, Atkinson, Ojomoh who ever earns it.
Lawence(as 13)
Murley Freeman Radwan Who ever earns it.
Arundell(as FB option)

All need a real chance to impress.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ojomoh played 16 times last season, Atkinson played 17 times - not that different tbf

I'll have to keep more of an eye on Atkinson this season, I only properly watched him in the game vs us right at the end when his hype was building but he wasn't great - but then Gloucester in general finished the season poorly so hard to judge

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So over the first 2 years post WC these are who id like to be introduced(not all at once). Some i want just back to their best positions

Dan
Pearson (CCS but he isnt ready yet)
FSmith, MSmith(as 10)
Kelly, Atkinson, Ojomoh who ever earns it.
Lawence(as 13)
Murley Freeman Radwan Who ever earns it.
Arundell(as FB option)

All need a real chance to impress.

T Willis and Mercer hopefully. Barbeary to see the light and return back to hooking….I know, I know….

I like Lawrence and think he's perfectly capable of playing both 12 and 13 very well. That would give us options and while numbers on shirts do matter, some people just see 'centre' rather than fixating on the difference between 12 and 13.

Apart from some dominant scrummaging props, 9 is the really big issue.

 

[Scotty]

T Willis and Mercer hopefully. Barbeary to see the light and return back to hooking….I know, I know….

I like Lawrence and think he's perfectly capable of playing both 12 and 13 very well. That would give us options and while numbers on shirts do matter, some people just see 'centre' rather than fixating on the difference between 12 and 13.

Apart from some dominant scrummaging props, 9 is the really big issue.

Agree with Mercer, TWillis 100%

Lawrence definitly can play 12 well but is a better 13 IMO. Happy with him in either position tbh though.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Seb has been very good for Gloucester. If he continues his form at the start of this season he must be looked at.

Hmmm you say he must be looked at but you also say he plays for Gloucester. Those two arnt compatible I'm afraid.

 

[Geordie]

Ok people....Mercer.
Whats his hard yard carrying like.

Agree with Mercer, TWillis 100%

Lawrence definitly can play 12 well but is a better 13 IMO. Happy with him in either position tbh though.

Funny now that Marchant is finally showing his level at 13 , he'll be away after this WC..typical

I wonder if WIll Joseph will feature...both Jones and Borthwick have looked at him.

I also have my doubts if mercer will be seleted.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ok people....Mercer.
Whats his hard yard carrying like.

Funny now that Marchant is finally showing his level at 13 , he'll be away after this WC..typical

I wonder if WIll Joseph will feature...both Jones and Borthwick have looked at him.

I also have my doubts if mercer will be seleted.

Not being physical enough was the stick previously used to beat him. Being in France put that one to bed. More footwork, intelligence and determination rather than seeing a brick wall as a magnet.

 

[Which Tyler]

It was never an accurate stick either - he just wasn't as good as Prime Billy at being Prime Billy.
By any other metric, his tight carrying was fine (same with work rate, grunt work, and too small - which were also used to beat him).

 

[Geordie]

I see Tom Willis had quite a debut for Saracens....17 carries, 8 defenders beaten and 2 turnovers

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Have said before and I'll say again that a Sarries-coached Willis excites me much more than a Gloucester-coached Mercer

 

[Which Tyler]

Have said before and I'll say again that a Sarries-coached Willis excites me much more than a Gloucester-coached Mercer

Now that's fair.
Due to the coaching.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

No idea how cheating sarries afforded Willis on top of their squad. Also not sure it's that good of business for them to keep Billy and Willis with their other backrow options.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

No how cheating sarries afforded Willis on top of their squad. Also not sure it's that good of business for them to keep Billy and Willis with their other backrow options.

They can make a back row and reserve of players currently at the World Cup:

6. McFarland
7. Earl
8. Vunipola
20. Gonzalez

Plus a couple of capped internationals left over in Willis and Christie. Stacked.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ok people....Mercer.
Whats his hard yard carrying like.

Funny now that Marchant is finally showing his level at 13 , he'll be away after this WC..typical

I wonder if WIll Joseph will feature...both Jones and Borthwick have looked at him.

I also have my doubts if mercer will be seleted.

Just fine, holds both the record and 2nd highest record for metres made by a forward in the French league after being there just 3 years. Mercer is one of those unfortunate players where their strengths are entirely ignored and people honed in on one aspect of their game someone else was better at (in this case Bill V in his prime could carry in traffic better than Mercer) and used that a as a stick to beat him with whilst ignoring literally everything else about his game.

Many were saying he'd be shown up in France with the big, bruising forwards. The exact opposite happened, he showed them up. It is in the same league as people questioning Watson at Fullback and questioning Ford's kicking, it's a largely made up weakness that is blown way out of proportion (and isn't even a weakness, he carried into traffic just fine, he simply wasn't Billy V prime level of freakishness).

Even then he outclassed Billy V in literally every other aspect of his game.

 

[TW27BA]

I'd rather have seen Sam Simmonds instead of Billy at this RWC.
Not sure what Mercer did or didn't do to not make the cut.