England vs Wales - 06/08/2011 - RWC Warm Up

[j-dawg]

Lets be honest, none of this really matters. 2007 proved we can shovel whatever crap we like onto the field and we will still beat Australia Drink up me hearties, yo-ho.

 

[psychic duck]

If it were based on form Strettle wouldn't be in, Sharples and JSD would be elevated above him in the pecking order (and for that matter, maybe Cueto and Ashton).
If Tait, Allen, Hipkiss & Clarke were given the runs they should have been 4 years ago (instead of the continued perseverance of Noon and Tindall), England would have a tip top centre pairing with bag loads of experience by now. Instead of underpinning their hopes on foreign wonder-kids. Or over-rated mungoballers with crap knees.
Had Geraghty been given the chance at 10 when he was in the form of his life 2 years, instead of being shoehorned at 12 to accommodative golden ******** throughout the Autumn, England could have found themselves a magnificent playmaker by now. Instead, they reverted to type.

I'm astounded Foden hasn't been dropped yet to bring back Balshaw (fairly amazed he was given a chance in the first place). Or they haven't pulled Catt & Robinson out of retirement yet.

I agree that Noon and Tindall are lumberers, but from the alternatives you suggested

Mathew Tait had his chance in the 2010 6 Nations to prove himself and failed,
Dan Hipkiss is a club player not an international
Jon Clarke likewise

Anthony Allen, perhaps deserves a recall

Shane Geraghty wasn't played at 10 for England because he isn't a good enough goal kicker, and I can't think of any English international standard goal kickers who don't play 10, so playing him at 10 wasn't an option, and anyway Toby Flood had a good international season so fly half isn't a problem for England

JSD has been given chances at international level

WHAT!?

how has Simpson-Daniel been given chances, he has 10 caps and his longest run of consecutive matches in two, which were against New Zealand and Australia in 2002 which England won

I have felt for a long time that he deserves a run in the side, (a full 6 nations/autumn internationals) just he always seems to get injured whenever he's mentioned in the same sentence as England team

However I don't know whether I would put him in the side now, as it would be harsh on Cueto who had a good international season (although I don't think Cueto's the best winger), and I also rate Sharples and Strettle highly, and I think Ojo is good, no idea why Banahan is preferred as the winger next in line after Cueto and Ashton

 

[JW.]

Didn't know his cap count was that low but I always thought his defence wasen't good enough for international level (not sure)?? But this is mainly caused by how unlucky the guys been with injuries. He is a very good attacking threat but so is Strettle (most players beaten in the premiership), I'd put Strettle in against Wales.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Anthony Allen is very very very deserving of a recall - especially after the form he's shown for Tigers this season


To compare Strettle to JSD is like kicking JSD in the nuts - He's ten times the player Strettle is
Strettle has improved a lot since going to Saracens, but he's still not of international standard at all

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I'd go with-

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Craig Mitchell
4. Ryan Jones
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Josh Turnbull
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau

9. Tavis Knoyle
10. James Hook
11. Shane Williams
12. Gavin Henson
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Morgan Stoddart


Could have Roberts over Scott Williams, but I'd like to see Williams given a go sooner, rather than later. I'd play the first XV Vs England in the Millenium, and a strong team for the away game with a bit of experimentation. Williams looked very good against the Baa-Baas, so I think there can't be too much harm in giving him a go in the centre. If there is, Roberts

 

[mikefoot1]

I'd prefer to let some of the newer or less experenced guys play and see our strongest 15 at home, partly cause i'm going to that one

 

[TVH11]

I really hope that Mr Gatland and co go with a "strong" lineup for all matches, and have some consistency with selection. We've had a huge problem with Team cohesion over last few games, and form of players so we just need to get some sort of winning mentality going; the boys seem very low in confidence. Wouldn't mind Knoyle playing 9 TBH, at least he can pass. Anything but stoddart at full back, cant tackle for S!!t and doesn't pass in attack, I'd rather see out of form Byrne there than him. Thats just me though As long as we have Falatau at 8, we wont lose

 

[dullonien]

I'd go with-

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Craig Mitchell
4. Ryan Jones
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Josh Turnbull
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau

9. Tavis Knoyle
10. James Hook
11. Shane Williams
12. Gavin Henson
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Morgan Stoddart


Could have Roberts over Scott Williams, but I'd like to see Williams given a go sooner, rather than later. I'd play the first XV Vs England in the Millenium, and a strong team for the away game with a bit of experimentation. Williams looked very good against the Baa-Baas, so I think there can't be too much harm in giving him a go in the centre. If there is, Roberts

Interesting selection, and I agree with some of it. Craig Mitchell at 3 is a good shout, because he needs gametime after returning from injury. He'll be important as backup to Adam Jones, and we all know Adam Jones is world class, and can slot straight back into the team no problem. Worth giving Ryan Jones more gametime at lock, because he's probably gonne have more gametime there off the bench than whoever the other backup lock will be (probably Charteris). I'm not sure about Turnbull, if there really a need? He's had quite a severe dip in form since his outstanding first half of last season. We can also play Ryan Jones or Delve at blindside if needed, or even move Warbs across to accommodate Williams or Tipuric at 7. I'd prefer to see Lydiate continue at 6 alongside Warbs and Faletau so they can continue to build as a unit on their excellent display v the BaaBaas. Turnbull's time will come, but I don't think he'll be making the WC squad this time.

Knoyle would be good at 9, but I think Gats will go with Phillips to try and get his form back. Not sure about a Henson - Scott Williams centre partership either. Henson is out of practice, not the best partner for an inexperienced youngster like Williams to play against England in HQ. I think it would be a little unfair on him. I also think we need to find a genuine centre partership in these warm-up games, and that will include one of Roberts or Davies imo, so get one of them playing alongside Henson for at least a half in each game. Gatland also needs to decide where he sees Hook playing come WC time, at 10 or centre and give him a run in that position during these warm-ups.

Finally, I don't like Stoddart at fullback, but then maybe he needs gametime to see whether he can be a bench option to cover the back three. I feel Byrne needs gametime aswell, overall we're in a bit of a pickle at fullback, mostly because Gatland simply shifted Hook back to 15 whenever there was an opportunity to try someone new like Stoddart, Halfpenny, Priestland or Tovey.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Interesting selection, and I agree with some of it. Craig Mitchell at 3 is a good shout, because he needs gametime after returning from injury. He'll be important as backup to Adam Jones, and we all know Adam Jones is world class, and can slot straight back into the team no problem. Worth giving Ryan Jones more gametime at lock, because he's probably gonne have more gametime there off the bench than whoever the other backup lock will be (probably Charteris). I'm not sure about Turnbull, if there really a need? He's had quite a severe dip in form since his outstanding first half of last season. We can also play Ryan Jones or Delve at blindside if needed, or even move Warbs across to accommodate Williams or Tipuric at 7. I'd prefer to see Lydiate continue at 6 alongside Warbs and Faletau so they can continue to build as a unit on their excellent display v the BaaBaas. Turnbull's time will come, but I don't think he'll be making the WC squad this time.

Knoyle would be good at 9, but I think Gats will go with Phillips to try and get his form back. Not sure about a Henson - Scott Williams centre partership either. Henson is out of practice, not the best partner for an inexperienced youngster like Williams to play against England in HQ. I think it would be a little unfair on him. I also think we need to find a genuine centre partership in these warm-up games, and that will include one of Roberts or Davies imo, so get one of them playing alongside Henson for at least a half in each game. Gatland also needs to decide where he sees Hook playing come WC time, at 10 or centre and give him a run in that position during these warm-ups.

Finally, I don't like Stoddart at fullback, but then maybe he needs gametime to see whether he can be a bench option to cover the back three. I feel Byrne needs gametime aswell, overall we're in a bit of a pickle at fullback, mostly because Gatland simply shifted Hook back to 15 whenever there was an opportunity to try someone new like Stoddart, Halfpenny, Priestland or Tovey.

Point on the centres taken. I'd definately given henson a go, and I think it's slightly unfair to rule Tunrbull out before giving him a proper go for Wales, so hence his inclusion, to have a look at him. I just stuck Warburton in there because he's currently first-choice, and even though Martyn has 98 caps, he still is somewhat of an experement at the moment, so going with a slightly more familiar backrow may be the way forward, although I wouldn't be against his inclusion. Tovey and Halfpenny are still injured, and I forgot about Priestland. I'd give Stoddart a second game to prove his worth. I just quite like him.

 

[Draggs]

Stoddart on the wing- OK.
Fullback- please no.

If he is fit, I'd consider Halfpenny. Roberts possibly v Argentina.

Either Ryan or Charteris to start, alongside either AWJ or Bradley. We need more than two second rows to go to NZ with.
Stick with Lydiate and Warburton, they are getting better and getting used to playing together. Delve has been the inform Welsh 8 for the past 2/3 seasons when not injured. I'd avoid Turnbull right now, I still think McCusker is a better flanker, and he is unfortunately injured.

Would anyone consider Lloyd Williams on the bench during one of the tests? Good pass, fizzical; could be a young lad who wants to take the chance and try to impress Gatland. We also need to decide where Hook goes, as mentioned by others.

On the wing, I wouldn't start Shane. While some will say he needs match fitness, he is too much of a risk to start for this game. George North and possibly Morgan Stoddart. Leigh Halfpenny would start on the wing if not fullback. Jamie Roberts cold even be a possible candidate for the wing; apparently he has improved his pace while working with the new fitness coach.

As much as I hate to say it, we could consider starting Henson. I'd start Jonathan Davies at outside centre.

 

[Ozzay]

Its really hard to call Gatland especially when you know hes got his favourites!
Steve Walsh :/

I think he'll go something like this

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Craig Mitchell

4. Ryan Jones
5. AWJ

6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Powell

9. Phillips
10. Hook

12. Henson
13. Davies

11. North
14. Stoddart
15. Byrne

 

[dullonien]

I hope to god it isn't Powell at 8, and honestly I don't think it will be. Gatlands new favourite player seems to be Faletau, he's always talking about how much he impresses him. He must also be impressed with Delve and the season he's had in the Super15, considering his usual unwillingness to include players playing in England let alone the other side of the world. Gatland is also the kind of person that will see big positives in the fact Delve has been playing against the best SH players week in week out, and the kind of information and experience that will bring to the squad. If anyone deserves a second chance at 8, it's Delve and the fact he's involved with the squad shows that imo.

Powell being left out from the second Poland training camp also says quite alot imo. Gatland takes quite alot from training, and often picks his team on how the players have gone in training, rather than how they've played for their club, so to be left out is quite a big thing. Gatland and all the players have made quite a big deal about these training camps in Poland aswell, and how important they've been to build a tight knit squad, and hopefully help them perform under pressure. Despite Gatland saying that WC selection isn't over for those that missed out, I personally think it is and it'll mean Powell and JT will miss out (woohoo), as will Peel (damn).

Against England, both away and at home, I think Delve and Faletau will share the time at 8, with both getting roughly a full game overall.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Apparently Powell has been packing on muscle during his time off from Wasps, but has done no fitness
A guy who just got signed to the Sale academy, said something along the lines of "Was training at carrington for the first time today, and saw andy powell! The guy's f'ing HUGE, been packing it on big time, was shocking at fitness tests though"

 

[Thingimubob]

When're the teams being announced btw?
For me I'd go with something like this:

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Craig Mitchell
4. Bradley Davies
5. Alun-Wyn Jones
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau (feel these three need to stick together for now)
9. Tavis Knoyle (don't think Phillips deserves to start)
10. James Hook (more to see what how he does, we know what to expect from Jones, but not Hook)
11. George North
12. Gavin Henson
13. Jamie Roberts (on form this could be a cracking prtnership...all depends on Gavin though)
14. Morgan Stoddard
15. Lee Byrne
Replacements: 16. Richard Hibbard 17. Adam Jones 18. Luke Charteris 19. Gareth Delve (needs at least 35 - 40mins on the pitch) 20. Mike Phillips/Lloyd Williams 21. Stephen Jones 22. Scott Williams

Might change a bit of this by sticking Scott Williams with Roberts in the centre, or possibly with Jon Davies too.
For the match at home I'd start Martyn Williams at 7, Delve at 8, either Phillips or Williams at 9, Jon Davies in the centre, Shane at 11 and possibly someone else at fullback. We're very very short on fullbacks atm! Byrne's form is a bit off atm, Stoddard's too unpredictable defensively to go there (though there was a noticeable improvement in his tackling from the game vs Scotland to the next game vs Italy in the 6 Nations) and Halfpenny's injured. Not too sure about Priestland there at international level yet, could possibly put Roberts there, then try out a centre parternship with either Henson, Jon Davies and Scott Williams.

 

[Draggs]

Warburton to captain Wales, Matthew Rees out.
http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/145269.html

S**t, S**t, S**t.

 

[Thingimubob]

Warburton to captain Wales, Matthew Rees out.
http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/145269.html

S**t, S**t, S**t.

****...
If Gatland starts Bennett then he's a tosser. Hibbard or Ken Owens!

 

[Draggs]

Hibbard is still out AFAIK.
Shoulder surgery. Could still make WC.

Right then, we have Huw Bennett, who needs no introduction; Lloyd Burns, who is not tested and perhaps not up to this level; and Ken Owens, who is probably the best out of the lot, but has been injured for nearly half of the season.

Mefin Davies anyone? TRT? Steve Jones??

 

[SelimNiai]

Lets be honest, none of this really matters.

A Wales-England game always matters.

 

[Wagner]

32-17 to England

 

[TrueSlawter]

Should be a close game tbf can't wait for this either.. anyone know if its being showed on BBC or is it on Sky or w/e?