England vs Canada - 10/07/21

[Lé Ddanno]

LudLAM hardly covered himself in glory either, all I can recall right now is 2 pens in a row.

Agree re Ben Curry, having either Lud in over him is a ******* joke

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think Jones really missed a trick trying out Underhill as captain in these games. It may not work but my gut feeling is that he could do the role well and keep discipline in check.

Ben Curry situation, that's just Jones jonesing. You have ******* identical twins, one is rightly capped the other barely getting a look in. It's insane and I can't think of any other country where only 1 identical twin gets a look in if either prove they are up to it.

Also anyone notice this?

 

[Scotty]

For me Dombrandt, Randall,Smith, Radwan, Steward all did enough to be in the conversation for the 6N and they are the ones when the squad was announced i was interested in, Kelly did good but give it another year in the prem then talk. The rest of the new caps dont care about tbh.

BCurry should get in but T will be back. And no way the hookers are getting in without injuries

Ofcourse Robson Slade Genge Obano(hopfully) and ewels(unfortunatly) will be there.

I think all in all this was a success.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

For me Dombrandt, Randall,Smith, Radwan, Steward all did enough to be in the conversation for the 6N and they are the ones when the squad was announced i was interested in, Kelly did good but give it another year in the prem then talk. The rest of the new caps dont care about tbh.

BCurry should get in but T will be back. And no way the hookers are getting in without injuries

Ofcourse Robson Slade Genge Obano(hopfully) and ewels(unfortunatly) will be there.

I think all in all this was a success.

Blamire could easily be the 3rd hooker imo, not like Jones likes Dunn anyway

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I'd have Blamire in the equation - LCD and George are comfortably the two in the first choice 23 but you always need a third choice, especially this autumn which could well have some rotation in for the Lions guys (depending how much rugby they play over the summer).
I've always been a champion for Langdon - but realistically that's been championing him to be a rotation option for Sale. Go back to the start of the season and I'd have never guessed he'd have an England start under his belt. Don't get me wrong, I'm over the moon for him - but he's very much in the solid and dependable role, could well mature into a real force as a well rounded player, but at this stage doesn't have the X-Factor that Blamire does.


EJ's refusal to give Robson a fair crack is one of the biggest black marks on his tenure, imo - Randall was good this summer, don't get me wrong, but I thought Robson looked better off the bench. I know he's not going to get a crack, and I'm more than happy to see Randall in the mix, but it's just a massive shame a player as good as Robson is unlikely to ever get an international start.

No arguments with the rest of @Scotty 's list
Dombrandt I'd just throw straight in as a starter, Binny's looked crap for literally years and there's no other options in the EPS that he has to surpass
Randall could well start but realistically he'll take Robson's bench spot behind Youngs,
Radwan I'd bring through as May's successor - left winger with real pace, he's tailor made for it. Can't remember our schedule for the autumn but I'd hope he'd get a start or two, and then go from there into the 6N
Hard to know what EJ will do with Smith - he's only ever looked at Farrell and Ford so who knows what he does with three flyhalves. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ford drop out - Farrell is definitely one of the first names on EJ's team list, Ford at 10 seems to happen when there's a gap at 12 that Farrell has to fill more than anything.
Steward I'd bring through slowly, just because of his age. IMO he's already a better fullback than Daly has ever looked, but he's only 20 and you don't want to risk his development by rushing it.
So happy he had a good summer, though - exactly what we need at 15. Would put him on a similar development schedule to Radwan. Couple of games in the autumn then re-assess squad roles going into the 6N.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The problem arises if Hones picks Smith at 10 and then still picks Farrell at 12 who offers nothing there. He limits the 13 and 10s role to be effective as he literally offers nothing going forward.
Kelly today did more than Farrell has done with all his caps at 12.

Time to move on from Ford and stick Farrell on the bench until he improves and then let me bench for the 10 shirt.

 

[Scotty]

The problem arises if Hones picks Smith at 10 and then still picks Farrell at 12 who offers nothing there. He limits the 13 and 10s role to be effective as he literally offers nothing going forward.
Kelly today did more than Farrell has done with all his caps at 12.

Time to move on from Ford and stick Farrell on the bench until he improves and then let me bench for the 10 shirt.

Then lets just hope we get a manu Fit and a miracle that he stays that way, then Smith would play like he does at Quins.

Kelly is young but does actually look good. So why did he play ireland u20s? Whats his England and Ireland link? I know it doesnt matter now im just curious

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

As a Sale fan it was very very frustrating seeing Ben get 20(?)mins, play really well in that time (think he got four turnovers, including ones during penalty advantage) and then get chucked aside. Ludlam deserved a shot after a fantastic cameo last week, but Ludlow?
I wouldn't be surprised if Ben never gets capped again, now. Honestly would prefer to see him discover an Irish or Scottish Granny and go off and play for them than have this happen to him.

The charitable way of looking at this is that Jones already knows Curry's good enough and wanted to look at some of the more fringe options as he (hopefully) rebuilds towards France. We didn't need to play our strongest teams in these games.

Giving Ludlow the captaincy was just embarrassing though.

 

[Reiser99]

The charitable way of looking at this is that Jones already knows Curry's good enough and wanted to look at some of the more fringe options as he (hopefully) rebuilds towards France. We didn't need to play our strongest teams in these games.

Might buy that if we hadn't had Underhill in the back row, Slade in midfield and Genge upfront.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kelly is young but does actually look good. So why did he play ireland u20s? Whats his England and Ireland link? I know it doesnt matter now im just curious

He's got Irish Grandparents on one side of his family, but he was born and raised in England
Played for Ireland u20s cause they asked and we didn't

 

[Makeshift10]

Can this also be the end of Ewels England career. He gives more penalties than he has touches of the ball.

As a Bath fan, he's genuinely so average. Bar his excellent performance against France, I've never seen him make a dominant carry, dominant tackle or turnover. Our lineout is decidedly average and he seems to be trying to be some weird kind of enforcer without any force - meaning a rash of cards and penalties while not even impacting the opposition in the process. I'm more pro Eddie than most on here but the Ewels blindspot is unfathomable. An impressive young man when speaking and being 'fast off the floor' aren't enough to make an effective international second row!

 

[BPM]

I don't really think it's a blind spot, I think it's a lack of genuinely better options. Neither Wells or McNally looked any better.

Ribbans would have been picked but for a fairly unfortunate red. If he gets a chance, I could easily see him leapfrogging Ewels.

In other news, I see Ludlow has been cited. No real surprise there - Muay Thai moves aren't generally allowed in rugby …

The players' reaction when he scored (before it was disallowed), was a good indication of his popularity, but I don't really see what he's bringing to the England set-up. Against Canada, the only moments of any real note were the weak tackle on their scrum half for their first try and a yellow that should have been a red and ultimately led to their second try.

A couple of games as captain is a nice reward for an honest trier but I'd be quite happy not to see him in England shirt again.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd quite like to see how a lock pairing of Isiekwe and Martin goes.

 

[BPM]

So would I in theory, but neither of them are playing lock ATM!

Both need to focus on the second row IMO.

 

[Crash Hamster]

If someone were to convince Eddie Jones that lock and second row were two different positions, he could play two locks at second row and those of us who like to see players used internationally in their club positions would be very happy.

Then we'd just need to stop the full back/FH, winger/FB, centre/winger/FB, FH/IC, IC/OC confusions and we'd be world-beaters <nods>

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If someone were to convince Eddie Jones that lock and second row were two different positions, he could play two locks at second row and those of us who like to see players used internationally in their club positions would be very happy.

Of all the criticisms I've seen levelled at Eddie Jones, claiming that he doesn't play enough second rows is probably the one I least expected.

 

[BPM]

And yet Rob Baxter has a lot of vocal support despite regularly playing 3 locks, an 8 at 6 and an 'eighth back' at 8. He also plays Whitten on the wing from time to time …

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

And yet Rob Baxter has a lot of vocal support despite regularly playing 3 locks, an 8 at 6 and an 'eighth back' at 8. He also plays Whitten on the wing from time to time …

Baxter does pick packs that have balance though. Something that cannot be said about England. He also uses a game plan that all his team executes, whereas the England players and game plan don't always seem aligned.

You know i moan at Eddie, but he has been hugely successful for us. It's just a shame that when he does make mistakes they are ones everyone saw (on this wise wise forum) apart from Eddie. Things like Billy's form, Makos scrummaging, selecting a lock at 6, bench splits. They are such little things but it is odd that a good as coach as he is makes school boy errors sometimes.

I'm sure he has reasons for his madness but he's definitely not perfect.

 

[BPM]

No-one is saying he is perfect.

I was on the wind up, but I do find it funny how Baxter is mostly loved while Eddie is unpopular.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Baxter is mostly loved

Depends where you look, I guess - think the tide is definitely turning on Baxter after the last 12 months