England V Wales - 29th May

[Duck a l'Orange]

In the 6 nations Wales were soundly beaten by England in the first half and had it not been for some rather shabby English Defence in the 2nd half would have been whitewashed. Drew with Ireland, scrapped past Scotland. I guarantee NZ will not be so accommodating. And what could Wales really take away from playing a below strength England missing key game changing players such as Itoje, Kruis, Faz, Goode, Knowel, the Vunipolas, etc. At least half the first team not available. Plus the England players who are out will probably have one eye on the Aus tour and won't be firing too hard.

Goode and Mako game changers? Seems like a slight exaggeration.

It should be a fairly decent warm up in my opinion. A few of the players are in the Saxons squad and will be pressing their case for the future, while the rest will be pressing their case to play in Australia- and Jones has said he wants to win all four games, so I doubt they'll be going that easily.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Goode and Mako game changers? Seems like a slight exaggeration

No defence at the back and a scrum going backwards would certainly change a game

 

[spartan32]

It's right that jones pushes the lads to win this game, especially with WC group selection looming, and Id be happy to have one over on the Welsh. In this game it is there's to lose, given the selection issues England face. If we lose we can chalk it down to said issues and crack on. If Wales lose, they have done so to a weakened England outfit with pretty much their 1st XV on the pitch and then have to trudge down under to get battered by the best team in the world by a long margin. Pressure really is on them. Hopefully we can use that to our advantage, while giving some other lads a chance to show what they can do.

In any event it's a Prem Final, followed by international followed by day off. Everyone is winning.

 

[Maverick1987]

When's the teams being announced ?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

When's the teams being announced ?

I'd expect on Friday - 2 days before the match.

 

[Thingimubob]

It's right that jones pushes the lads to win this game, especially with WC group selection looming, and Id be happy to have one over on the Welsh. In this game it is there's to lose, given the selection issues England face. If we lose we can chalk it down to said issues and crack on. If Wales lose, they have done so to a weakened England outfit with pretty much their 1st XV on the pitch and then have to trudge down under to get battered by the best team in the world by a long margin. Pressure really is on them. Hopefully we can use that to our advantage, while giving some other lads a chance to show what they can do.

In any event it's a Prem Final, followed by international followed by day off. Everyone is winning.

Is my worry about this game. If we win, then it'll be dismissed by most (non Welsh) people as a win against an under strength England, and if we lose we'll be going into a NZ tour having lost against a weakened England.

That said, has to be noted that England's strength in depth is actually very good. Much better than Wales certainly! I mean, it's not bad when you lose your two first choice second rowers, and have Launchbury and Lawes to step into their place!

Anyway, going back to the tours, I have a feeling all NH teams may struggle in the SH this year. Wales and England are certainly capable of picking up wins vs a transitioning NZ / an Australian team that hasn't played in ages, but I have a feeling it's gonna be business as usual after what we saw in the 6 Nations.

Hoping I get proved wrong, certainly wouldn't mind England, Wales, Ireland and France pick up wins against the 4 big SH sides, after none of us made it past them to the semi's last September.

 

[Jimbo87]

Certainly agree that England loss will be seen as acceptable from the majority of England fans, however from a Wales perspective a loss to England could actually be the best thing in terms of their tour to NZ, Wales seem to come to life when written off and there are no expectations, hopefully all the NH teams do better than the WC. Just my two cents

 

[FrenchFan]

Hoping I get proved wrong, certainly wouldn't mind England, Wales, Ireland and France pick up wins against the 4 big SH sides, after none of us made it past them to the semi's last September.

Don't know about England, Wales, Ireland, I'm sure they have their chances - however you can safely rule out France.

 

[Jimbo87]

Based on what form over the last seasons, they are certainly not lacking in talented personnel, surely they have a good performance or two to come, lack of consistency in personnel doesn't help, probably the most talented two 9s in the NH if only they can find the right 10 they could unlock the back line, they could cause any defense problems...

 

[FrenchFan]

Based on what form over the last seasons, they are certainly not lacking in talented personnel, surely they have a good performance or two to come, lack of consistency in personnel doesn't help, probably the most talented two 9s in the NH if only they can find the right 10 they could unlock the back line, they could cause any defense problems...

are u talking about France? I'm not sure as I can't see how your comments relate to the creepshow I saw at the 6N. They were all over the place. They've gone from bad to worse since the WC.

 

[Jimbo87]

are u talking about France? I'm not sure as I can't see how your comments relate to the creepshow I saw at the 6N. They were all over the place. They've gone from bad to worse since the WC.

Yes I was talking about the French I didn't think they were terrible in the 6 Nations, but certainly in recent years they haven't been good, point I was trying to make was with the talent they have available they should be better and if managed well with careful selections can't be a team to be feared, the only position I think they lack real quality in is the fly half.

 

[FrenchFan]

Yes I was talking about the French I didn't think they were terrible in the 6 Nations, but certainly in recent years they haven't been good, point I was trying to make was with the talent they have available they should be better and if managed well with careful selections can't be a team to be feared, the only position I think they lack real quality in is the fly half.

but the union is incapable of harnessing whatever talent is there. They were lacking in every department and every line, not just short of a good fly-half.
If all that missing was a decent fly-half they wouldn't have finished the championship with 2 lucky 1-pt wins and 3 straight losses. We scored less tries than Italy?!

We were def watching 2 different Fra teams. I also think many Eng fans prefer to gloss over the pîss poor opposition Eng faced in the last game.

 

[JJFlash]

Certainly agree that England loss will be seen as acceptable from the majority of England fans, however from a Wales perspective a loss to England could actually be the best thing in terms of their tour to NZ, Wales seem to come to life when written off and there are no expectations, hopefully all the NH teams do better than the WC. Just my two cents

An England loss should never be acceptable, neither to supporters and particularly not to the players and coaches.
This team must do all it can to beat Wales and beat them convincingly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

An England loss should never be acceptable, neither to supporters and particularly not to the players and coaches.
This team must do all it can to beat Wales and beat them convincingly.

I was thinking that - especially at Twickenham.

As an aside: I wish they were playing this test somewhere else in the country.
I know it's a cash grab game, pure and simple, and that they get more by playing at Twickenham than elsewhere but a game in Manchester/Leeds or even in the Midlands would've been good to see.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Manchester would of been good prep for U20's JRWC

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

An England loss should never be acceptable, neither to supporters and particularly not to the players and coach.

Generally agree with you, but on this occasion I'm totally indifferent. A one off friendly with half the team out makes it meaningless.

The interest isn't the team, but how certain individuals perform.

 

[Peat]

Manchester would of been good prep for U20's JRWC

Good thinking.

I have to say, I won't be too bummed out if we lose this. The key for me here is performance, not the result.

 

[j'nuh]

Good thinking.

I have to say, I won't be too bummed out if we lose this. The key for me here is performance, not the result.

Same. I'm willing to give Jones a little leeway on this test considering we are missing Itoje, Kruis and Billy. And I suppose Mako, although I'm glad in a way that he's missed out, because Mullan will start and I've wanted that for a while. Also I guess Farrell.

What are peoples thinking on Goode these days? I haven't followed the league enough to make my own judgement, but winning player of the year is quite a thing. Also, he's loved by Sarries and starts whenever possible under current and previous management. Lancaster trusted him as second choice, and now Jones seems to be putting faith in him too. So many coaches and professionals of the game appear to like him.

But if Haskell makes less than 3 turnovers, the pitchforks are coming out.

 

[Peat]

Alex Goode has been proven too slow and too weak to offer the full package expected of an England full-back.

Nothing he does in a league full of players too slow and too weak for test rugby will change that opinion.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Goode is an excellent club player, but a average international 15 IMO.