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England V Wales - 29th May

Ford will start but Slade or Goode will be on the bench as a contingency plan to share the playmaking responsibilities if Jones feels he needs to move Farrell to 10.

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That is unless he goes with Teo
 
Of course people should be critical of Ford's goal kicking. It wasn't good enough.

But that's all that needs saying. Everyone has off days.

Instead people are ramping it up to be the major story. This is where Eddie's quotes come from, the interviewer having one swing at the question then having another when Eddie batted it away. And then it balloons into the whole chat about whether Ford's in good enough form, whether he's in the right mental place, flakey... and so on. Which is okay here, but once it goes into the media, its just counter-productive and starts to overshadow the good story. And that's something we've seen time and time again in this country in sport after sport.

Jimbo, as for your final point, my guess is Jones disagrees that Ford is a lesser attacking threat than Cipriani.


J'nuh - You can be guarded and celebrate the good times while they're here. They're not mutually exclusive. I'd agree with not judging - although I'm getting tempted to declare myself positive - but that doesn't change that the game went about as well as possible.

I do see many of your points but come on Fords had a poor season at club level, his dad has now departed club rugby, there is a lot more to the story than simply poor kicking form, a lot of this started long before the game.

I think it might be in the nations best interest to drop Ford for the Aus tour give him some time to gather his thoughts, he is a confidence player, doesn't appear to have a huge amount of it.
 
I think it might be in the nations best interest to drop Ford for the Aus tour give him some time to gather his thoughts, he is a confidence player, doesn't appear to have a huge amount of it.

And yet he managed to beat Wales 5 tries to one with some of the most pathetic passing from his SH that an international fixture has ever witnessed, the Bergamasco incident aside.
 
And yet he managed to beat Wales 5 tries to one with some of the most pathetic passing from his SH that an international fixture has ever witnessed, the Bergamasco incident aside.

Burrell from a lineout with a pass from youngs. Ford has a nice hand to play in the Watson try, but a lot of that was on Watson. Youngs from a lineout with a cheaky break. Clifford long range interception effectively. Ford gives the pass to Lawes nice and late, but a lot is still on Lawes with that handoff.

I don't think Ford was bad apart from place kicking, but I think he's no longer picking out the best runner as well as he was.
 
If we're accepting that performance from Ford then why is no one willing to cut Cipriani some slack with his goal kicking?
He's a far better passer and runner than Ford.
 
I do see many of your points but come on Fords had a poor season at club level, his dad has now departed club rugby, there is a lot more to the story than simply poor kicking form, a lot of this started long before the game.

I think it might be in the nations best interest to drop Ford for the Aus tour give him some time to gather his thoughts, he is a confidence player, doesn't appear to have a huge amount of it.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't wondering whether he should be there. Accidentally destroying him would be the single biggest blow to our aspirations of winning a WC. However, he and his coach are happy, and despite looking a little short of confidence and being in a toxic club environment, he is still performing for me.

If we're accepting that performance from Ford then why is no one willing to cut Cipriani some slack with his goal kicking?
He's a far better passer and runner than Ford.

I've said repeatedly I'd like to see Cipriani back on this stage.

That said - Ford's goal kicking better have been a one off and the more I rewatch, the more I like Ford's performance other than that, even if it falls under his usual standards. Regular poor goalkicking would be an issue... although I suspect Cipriani would rise to the occasion.
 
If we're accepting that performance from Ford then why is no one willing to cut Cipriani some slack with his goal kicking?
He's a far better passer and runner than Ford.

I couldn't agree more, a lot of the comments on here seem to reflect biased views as if it were some kind of popularity contest, as for comments about Fords worst being better than Farrels best, what an utterly stupid statement, Farrell is that poor that's why he is part of such a successful team is it, what about when he went head to head with Ford last season and bath lost, was Ford so much better then him then, the charge down kick against Wales in the six nations that sparked Wales into life then England almost lost the game.
 
I can see that you've clearly made the most considered analysis of the situation...
 
This is one of those irregular verbs isn't it? I see things perfectly clearly, you are biased, he/she/it is a one eyed drooling moron...
 
This is one of those irregular verbs isn't it? I see things perfectly clearly, you are biased, he/she/it is a one eyed drooling moron...

I wouldn't go that far, when talking Farrell and Ford they do offer different things, an in form Ford can really get a back line moving, yet to see Farrell consistently have the ability to do that, but the fact remains Ford is not in form, Farrell is playing some of the best rugby of his career.
 
People say drop Ford but for who? Cips kicking is just as bad from the tee, Slade hardly been setting the world alight for the chiefs let alone in a position he hasn't played all season in.

I gave him grief during the game, but overall he wasn't **** poor (Expect his kicking)

Anyone heard of the tour from hell in 1998? Imagine if Wilko was dropped because of that.
 
Trouble for Ford is that Farrell and Slade already have a handicap over Ford because they are better defensively, and so if Ford wants to keep a starting spot, he cannot afford to be just adequate. I'd give him another game or two in an England shirt, probably from the bench, but I definitely think being dropped is on the cards.

Also, whilst his goalkicking was probably an aberration, his range has long been a concern. It's not looking good for him if he needs another goalkicker on the field to take those longer kicks.
 
People say drop Ford but for who? Cips kicking is just as bad from the tee, Slade hardly been setting the world alight for the chiefs let alone in a position he hasn't played all season in.

I gave him grief during the game, but overall he wasn't **** poor (Expect his kicking)

Anyone heard of the tour from hell in 1998? Imagine if Wilko was dropped because of that.

What's wrong with Farrell at 10 he is in form has really improved making line breaks etc, etc, maybe give him a start in the 10 shirt with Ford on the bench see what happens.
 
I wouldn't go that far, when talking Farrell and Ford they do offer different things, an in form Ford can really get a back line moving, yet to see Farrell consistently have the ability to do that, but the fact remains Ford is not in form, Farrell is playing some of the best rugby of his career.

Farrell does a fair job of getting the back line moving these days and is very sharp at spotting when opponents have left a nice big gap for him to run through. I don't much care for him, but I do try very hard to see all the good he does and he is clearly a competent international fly-half.

But my as unbiased as possible opinion is that Ford is possibly the most naturally talented fly-half since Carter. There's many who can pass a ball as well; there's many who run the ball as well if not better; but there's not many who do both and I don't think any of them are as talented a tactical kicker. Ford's technical ability to play any game plan you want is freakish. I don't think people appreciate just how good Ford's tactical kicking is and how good it was yesterday. Better than what I see Farrell put out there most days.

So if this is Ford out of form, and his tactical kicking is better than his rivals, his defence is fine and he's still doing his bit to create try scoring chances... why wouldn't I back him? Other than concerns about long-term damage to his confidence.

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Also, whilst his goalkicking was probably an aberration, his range has long been a concern. It's not looking good for him if he needs another goalkicker on the field to take those longer kicks.

Interesting. That's long been one of my complaints about Farrell, but not Ford.
 
Also, whilst his goalkicking was probably an aberration, his range has long been a concern. It's not looking good for him if he needs another goalkicker on the field to take those longer kicks.

I wouldn't say Farrell's range is appreciably larger.

Slade and Daly are our only long range kickers afaik.
 
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If seriously talking kicking range you probably need to talk Daly, although I think slade has similar distance, can anyone confirm?
 
Slade can kick it a mile too... certainly far enough at international level.

Unless you're going for a kick from a penalty as the last action of the game, the extreme end of Daly's range is probably going to go largely unused.
 
Slade can kick it a mile too... certainly far enough at international level.

Unless you're going for a kick from a penalty as the last action of the game, the extreme end of Daly's range is probably going to go largely unused.

Yeah crazy how far the guy can kick, as you say probably won't be a frequent feature even assuming he was, would love to see him given some descent game time in an England shirt.
 
Swapping him for JJ is completely unnecessary IMO, and would only serve a desire for change for change's sake.
 
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