England V Wales - 29th May

[Maverick1987]

I thought Harrison had a really good game. I'm really surprised people are underwhelmed by his performance tbh . I thought he was a real pest at the breakdown and had some real bite to his tackling and defensive work . His carrying was quite impressive too . All in all I thought he made a good impression on the team (he looked better once Kev replaced Hask) maybe he felt more comfortable knowing he wasn't the only person working hard on the ground ?

 

[Peat]

I thought Harrison had a really good game. I'm really surprised people are underwhelmed by his performance tbh . I thought he was a real pest at the breakdown and had some real bite to his tackling and defensive work . His carrying was quite impressive too . All in all I thought he made a good impression on the team (he looked better once Kev replaced Hask) maybe he felt more comfortable knowing he wasn't the only person working hard on the ground ?

He looked good in a lot of ways but any player giving away 5 penalties needs to be crucified. I really can't remember an England player giving away 5 penalties in a match before. Fantastic reactions to snaffle the loose ball that set up Yarde's try though - and good reactions from Launchbury to get straight over him.

 

[WaterboySA]

The England 12 impressed me. I think the English supporters can go into the Australia tour with confidence.

 

[TobesHodges]

So I guess the team Eddie will pick will look something like this? 1. M.Vunipola 2. Hartley 3. Cole 4. Itoje 5. Launchbury 6. Robshaw 7. Clifford 8. B.Vunipola 9. Youngs 10. Farrell 11. Watson 12. Te'o 13. Joseph 14. Nowell 15. Brown. This is based on past picks and a bit of form..

 

[Which Tyler]

Of course people should be critical of Ford's goal kicking. It wasn't good enough.

But that's all that needs saying. Everyone has off days.

This is the bit for me, personally.
Too many people can't separate out "Ford had a bad day from the tee" with "Ford had a bad day". In general play, Ford was pretty good (despite Barrel's pre-written script). The ball moved well once it had finally arrived, and was generally in the right place at the right time to make the line-breaks; we played in the right parts of the pitch and moved the Welsh defense around; territorial kicking was generally pretty good, though occasionally poorly communicated with his runners. But yes, his place kicking was dire.
If that were Cips; people would be excusing his kicking left, right and centre - but no; it means that Ford was outright bad; and the good things he did are irrelevant.
Charlie Hodgson had the same rep (though he flaked far more than Ford has with the boot - if possibly not as badly in one single match)

 

[Zed]

Who the f**k is that Clifford guy?? He totally skinned that Welsh number 13.

 

[Raggs]

U20s captain for our first (I think) JWC winning team. Big things expected of him, very skilled and very pacy.

 

[Zed]

I think if England win the first test against Australia, they'll probably take the series. They seem to have a few players now that might not make a world XV, but wouldn't be too far off. However I continue to be bemused at Mike Brown's selection. You compare his speed, finishing power, elusiveness to that of Watson's and Watson is in a completely different league. A fullback is pretty much a 3rd winger, Cullen for example. The presence of Brown severely restricts England's potency in attack. Is there no-one else? Watson can play fullback from what I've read, but I reckon he needs to be kept on the wing, he has that ability to score tries when there is nothing on and no room to move.

- - - Updated - - -

U20s captain for our first (I think) JWC winning team. Big things expected of him, very skilled and very pacy.

Get him in the backline ha ha

 

[Raggs]

Fullback is an issue. Watson's kicking game isn't that great, Nowell hasn't played there in ages, Goode doesn't quite seem to be able to crack it at the top level (but may have earned another go), Pennell hasn't looked as special this season...

We have a few promising youngsters, one of whom is on the SA tour with the saxons, but really there's not that many options. If Brown would stop shoving it under one arm, and actually pass here and there, he'd be amazing.

 

[TobesHodges]

I think he's played some sevens also, a bit like Ardie.. Poor Kvesic haha

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

There are wider aspects of Ford's game that cause concern for me away from his kicking.

But on the goal kicking front Sky flashed up a stat yesterday that his overall success rate in an England shirt was 72%. That won't have got any better as it was shown as he was lining up his first kick. That's just not good enough, especially when you consider he hasn't got the range to even attempt some of the 30:70 efforts that Faz or Daly would have a crack at.

I think it was Peat that said Ford is flaky. He's right and that's not what you need from the man steering the ship.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The England 12 impressed me. I think the English supporters can go into the Australia tour with confidence.

Burrell?

He did pretty well for us a couple of 6N ago, but he's not exactly top draw in most fans' opinions...

I don't think too many people are annoyed that he's Manu's injury replacement, but I wouldn't have been upset if Sam Hill was brought along instead.

Who the f**k is that Clifford guy?? He totally skinned that Welsh number 13.

I don't think he's quite as quick as Hooper, but he's not far off and he's a little bigger.
A bit raw at the minute, but as has been said - he's expected to be quite good.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just watched the game:
How good is it to see England backrowers competing at the breakdown?!
And making dominant tackles and carries? Usually we just have Binny doing the work of three men, here.
Obviously I'm excluding Haskell in this, as he had yet another "meh" game. Really hope Eddie phases him out over the summer.

Wouldn't mind seeing Robshaw, Harrison, Binny line up for the first test, with Clifford covering the whole backrow from the bench.



Also Launch and Lawes looked better than they have done recently. Wouldn't break up Krutoje but nice to have good alternatives again.

 

[johnmac99]

Burrell is picked for the Aussie tour to replace the injured Tualagi

"It's a great opportunity for Luther who I thought played really well yesterday," said England head coach Jones. "He carried the ball well, defended with aggression and scored an excellent try.

"We want players who are desperate to play for their country and are willing to make the sacrifices needed to succeed at the highest level.

"Luther's worked hard at his game since January and we've seen a significant improvement to his fitness and conditioning as a result. He thoroughly deserves his place on the tour.

"It was a tough selection call. Ollie Devoto has really impressed during his recent time in the England camp. We wish him a successful tour to South Africa with the Saxons.

 

[Peat]

Burrell is picked for the Aussie tour to replace the injured Tualagi

"It's a great opportunity for Luther who I thought played really well yesterday," said England head coach Jones. "He carried the ball well, defended with aggression and scored an excellent try.

"We want players who are desperate to play for their country and are willing to make the sacrifices needed to succeed at the highest level.

"Luther's worked hard at his game since January and we've seen a significant improvement to his fitness and conditioning as a result. He thoroughly deserves his place on the tour.

"It was a tough selection call. Ollie Devoto has really impressed during his recent time in the England camp. We wish him a successful tour to South Africa with the Saxons."

Thinly veiled statement about Ashton?

Just watched the game:
How good is it to see England backrowers competing at the breakdown?!
And making dominant tackles...

Didn't see huge amounts of this imo.

There are wider aspects of Ford's game that cause concern for me away from his kicking.

But on the goal kicking front Sky flashed up a stat yesterday that his overall success rate in an England shirt was 72%. That won't have got any better as it was shown as he was lining up his first kick. That's just not good enough, especially when you consider he hasn't got the range to even attempt some of the 30:70 efforts that Faz or Daly would have a crack at.

I think it was Peat that said Ford is flaky. He's right and that's not what you need from the man steering the ship.

Olyy said it. I mentioned him saying it.

I'd have used to agree but having seen him produce this season, despite a lot of pressure and the deteriorating passing of Youngs, has led me to change my mind. If this is his bottom level of performance (goal kicking aside), I'd basically never drop him.

Who the f**k is that Clifford guy?? He totally skinned that Welsh number 13.

He actually was a centre until fairly late on... I do somewhat regret him moving when I look at our current options, but hey, doing well where he is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't see huge amounts of this imo.

I probably noticed it because it was >0, which is our usual level


I don't get the Ford love in. The general theme seems to be "Both on top form Ford is better than Farrell" yet Ford is very rarely on top form.
Farrell is the far better option, at the moment, and should be starting 10.

 

[Peat]

I probably noticed it because it was >0, which is our usual level


I don't get the Ford love in. The general theme seems to be "Both on top form Ford is better than Farrell" yet Ford is very rarely on top form.
Farrell is the far better option, at the moment, and should be starting 10.

I know you don't, so you'll be even more surprised when I go ahead and say I'd rather have what looks like Ford's worst than Farrell's best. He's a superior tactical kicker, passer and runner even at his worst. Decision making is the big one but I've seen Farrell butcher so many opportunities that I reckon they're about even.

Goal kicking... well, Farrell's rediscovered his form, so he's up there, and he's got defence - although I saw nothing wrong with Ford's defence against Wales but then, it was a bit easy street.

And yes, I do think Farrell's improved a lot ball in hand. Ford's just a born natural.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I've always been in the same boat as Peat on this one.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I know you don't, so you'll be even more surprised when I go ahead and say I'd rather have what looks like Ford's worst than Farrell's best. He's a superior tactical kicker, passer and runner even at his worst.

That's just mental.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I can't see eddie making any changes to the Starting XV from the 6N's.

I really want to see Robshaw and Kvesic and 6 and 7 i think they would work well together, but will never happen as neither is a carrier. 6) Clifford, 7) Kvesic would be fun but Clifford work rate in defence would need to improve.

So many back row choices but we just don't know yet who has the ability to be world class (Other than Billy).