England v New Zealand

[gingergenius]

good for all of them besides waldouck. Moody needs game time and marler needs more top-flight action. besides that, none of them are good enough atm to start for england anyway.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree with GG
I think Johnson said before that Moody was going to be released this weekend because he wants him to get more game time after coming back from injury, but wasn't releasing Flood in case he aggravated his injury.

Shame that Waldouck has been released as that probably does mean that he won't play,
However, I've never been happier to see Tim Paynes name on a list :lol: though Doran-Jones is there too, and one of them has to be at least on the bench...hopefully Doran-Jones' versatility/general-being-able-to-scrummage will count towards him!

Surprised to see Ward-Smith on that list, i know he's only been called up due to Shaws injury, but I really would've expected him to get some bench time next weekend (wouldn't have thought that Johnson would put Attwood straight into the thick of it)

From the players released i'll hazard a guess at the team being:

Sheridan
Thompson
Cole
Lawes
Palmer
Croft
Moody (el capitan)
Easter
Youngs
Flood
Ashton
Hape
Tindall
Cueto
Foden

Hartley
Doran-Jones
Attwood
Haskell
Care
Hodgson
Armitage


Midfield aside, that's not a bad squad.
Would rather Waldouck at 12, Ward-Smith on the bench (nothing against Attwood, but he's pretty much an unknown quantity to me) and Doran-Jones/Marler at 1 (though Doran-Jones ability to be 1/3 will keep him on the bench until Wilson is fit again, at least, and Marler was never going to get his first cap against the ABs)

 

[Teh Mite]

If we had a 12 of any description, I'd even be happy with Tindall. Who normally plays 12 for Tigers? Twelvetrees or Allen??

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Anthony Allen,
I don't get how Johnson/the England Staff can be biased enough towards Leicester/Wasps to include Chuter/Payne, but then ignore A.Allen/Waldouck

 

[mohamed_ali12]

if we had a 12 of any description, i'd even be happy with tindall. Who normally plays 12 for tigers? Twelvetrees or allen??

Oliver Barkley

 

[veux]

How's Ollie Smith playing for Quins atm - I would have thought a try scoring lion would at least be included in the squad, and I remember him being a quality 13.


I think Hape shouldn't be included, he is too old and won't get us anywhere in the world cup. Any younger player would be better - especially Waldouk or Allen for the 12 Jersey.

As nasty as it is, I hope Hape gets an absolute pasting by New Zealand and Johnson is forced to drop him. If Fluety stays out and as Wilkos down there isn't anyone else he can feasibly play in the centers, therefore forcing him to call/use someone good.

 

[Phlegm & Poise]

I was looking through Olyy's team and Hape is the one name I was going to bring up too. Other than that, there are lots of players who are the right picks yet still need to re-prove themselves with convincing Autumns. Poor months for anyone like Flood, Lawes, Croft, Easter and they could all find themselves out of favour come the WC.

 

[gingergenius]

Oliver Barkley

ha! a man who's had numerous chances in an england jersey and proven consistently he's not good enough; a man who ended last season very well and suddenly people are talking about again.

Like Hodgson, outstanding Premiership player, can't quite cut it for England. And until we find someone who can, we've got to keep trying out new guys rather than bringing back players who've been around forever.

 

[nickdnz]

I don't envy England at the moment. I'd imagine the AB's will be getting a beat'n for their last game.

 

[admartian]

I swear, if Donald is anywhere near an AB jersey EVER (and I mean EVER - even for emergencies. In fact, my 4 year old niece could do a better job - you think this is hyperbole? It's the truth folks... ) I will have officially lost hope for Mr. Henry.

I mean, we have Cruden who was apparently supposed to be groomed. Plus Slade is more solid than Cruden and Donald combined; so there really is no room for Donald.

In fact, SBW would be a safer option at emergency 10 than Dumbshit Donald...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wonder if the SRU/WRU/IRFU will be slipping the England plays a few quid to try and put Carter out of action for their tests

 

[admartian]

Wonder if the SRU/WRU/IRFU will be slipping the England plays a few quid to try and put Carter out of action for their tests

Won't be necessary. Graham Henry will just sit Carter and start a guy who's been proven time after time to fall apart in Internationals.

 

[nickdnz]

Noticed Larksea hasn't made an appearance.

 

[gingergenius]

Wonder if the SRU/WRU/IRFU will be slipping the England plays a few quid to try and put Carter out of action for their tests

Carter or no Carter, Scotland, Ireland and Wales haven't got a hope in hell of beating NZ.

 

[skittles]

Carter or no Carter, Scotland, Ireland and Wales haven't got a hope in hell of beating NZ.

Donald would probably do his best to prove you wrong, though.

 

[Ostrayian]

Wonder if the SRU/WRU/IRFU will be slipping the England plays a few quid to try and put Carter out of action for their tests

hahaha. NZ can still win without Carter as has been proved many times in the past. Its McCaw you'd wanna go after! Richie gives so much more to this team then just by being the best openside in world rugby

 

[eot345]

I think england is fielding it's strongest team for years (jees ive said that alot over the last 2 years) and wll give NZ a run for their money.


i cant wait to scrum time vs australia having watched aus scrum today vs NZ we are going to demolish them lol

 

[eot345]

Eng vs NZ squad break down

sorry i just had to make another thread about the upcoming Eng vs NZ squad

i was just thinking about the advantages each team may or may not have in the diffrent aspects of the game

rough teams:

1/ Tony Woodcock vs Sheridan
2/ Keven Mealamu vs Thompson
3/ Owen Franks vs Cole
4/ Brad Thorn vs Lawes
5/ Tom Donnelly vs Palmer
6/ Jerome Kaino vs Croft
7/ Ritchie Macaw vs Moody
8/ Keiran Read vs Easter
9/ Jimmy Cowan vs Youngs
10/ Dan Carter vs Flood
11/ Jose Rokocoko vs Cueto
12/ Ma'a Nonu vs Hape
13/ Conrad Smith vs Tindall
14/ Cory Jane vs Ashton
15/ Mils Muliaina vs Foden

right sooo

The Front Row:
i think it will be pretty evenly matched with potentialy eng having the slight advantage at scrum time due to their greater size and the mighty Dan Cole. however Mealamu is i think great in the loose. I reckon Sheridan is a great ball carrier and has better fitness then any other prop between the two teams.

The second Row:
Again quite close Brad thorn is a great ball carrier however so is lawes so it will again be very tight howeve IMO englads second row again has the slight advantage

The Back Row:
NZ has the likes of Mccaw who scavenge better than say Moody (or any 7 in england for that matter) on the otherhand Tom Croft is quite agile and is great in the Line out.Reed and Easter are also both strong ball carrier however Reed is more athletic. But IMO NZ are better by quite some way in this category

The Halfbacks:
Ben Youngs has been a revelation for england and offers better distrobution than care however Cowan is a great player also i would say they are fairly evenly matched.
However Dan Carter is IMO far far better than flood in defence, attack creativity...everything! NZ win this one IMO

The Centres:
both sides have largish bulky centres I know Tindall could takle Nonu effectively but can Hape? What i'm worried about is if there is a Nonu on flood situation because flood will not be able to tackle Nonu with any reliability. NZ wins here convincingly IMO

The Back Three:
Rokocoko is a great stady hand so is Muliaina they are great loose play runners. Cory Jane is stronge also however we must not underestimate foden who is a great hard running Fallback Or Chris Ashton who may not be as quick as strettle but is quick and has got a good step aswell. IMO NZ have an edge here but no were near as large as the one they would have had last year.

To Sum Up:
England Have got a stronge physical pack that will perform well (especially in the tight)
and so IMO Englands pack will have a slight edge at scrum time whilst line outs will be roughly equal. So IMO Eng's pack is better than NZ's by a hairs breadth in the tight 5 whilst NZ's back row is a fair bit better than england's
In the backs im scared NZ will expose flood's weak tackling and Hapes general shitness aswell as Tindall's lack of pace. 10,12 and 13 is a key danger area for England where NZ will be totaly dominant. it will be interesting to see if strettle plays and if so if England can utilize his attacking ability whilst not letting NZ exploit his shitty tackling.

The Final Score:
Well on paper NZ to win by less than 12
IMO/my hope, Eng to win by less than 5

please read this all its taken me like 20 mins to write also this is just my opinion i do NOT claim to know masses about NZ rugby this is just what i think from watching the SI's and the Tri Nations aswell as NZ VS Aus Today

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Moved into its appropriate thread!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You make Floods defence sound much worse than it is!
I don't think he'll have much problem tackling Nonu (in that any professional player worth his salt should be able to tackle any other, not that Nonu is a wimp or Flood is a tackling machine)

I'd say that's a fair summary of the two squads, to be fair.
Don't know whether it was the playing surface, the ref, or what today but the ABs scrum didn't look good, which hopefully will carry over to next week, as that'll give us a strong platform/them a weak to attack from, same with their lineout (shame the same can't be said about their ruck - we don't/won't have a Pocock in there ruffling feathers)

One more advantage ABs have though is that they've had a lot longer to gel together over the Trinations/playing today.
Obviously they'll try out different combinations over the tour, but I have a feeling they'll put out their strongest team for England (lets face it, noone likes England, and they aren't going to take a chance of not beating us ) whereas this will be the first England match in a few months, and while (i hope) a lot of the partnerships (Lawes/Palmer, Youngs/Flood, Thompson/Cole, Foden/Ashton) will stick from the summer/the premiership, the whole team won't be as fluid as the ABs which is never good

I'm still holding out hop for Waldouck over Hape, but I really can't see it happening

If Strettle is picked over Cueto I expect a LOT of traffic down his channel, which means either he'll need to MTFU, or someone will have to help him out, leaving gaps elsewhere. I really think that Cueto is the best option for this match, as he's sound in defence, if a little slow in attack. Strettle is good at being put into gaps and zipping away, which i don't think will really happen against the ABs (i expect them to be a lot more clinical next weekend, after every mistake they made today was pounced on by the Aussies)