England tour of Argentina

[RedruthRFC]

Pleased for Wilson and Beaumont but not sure about Ford-Robinson?

That's a heck of a story - cut from the Saints academy (via Redruth RFC), playing National 2 South for Cambridge as recently as 2014, training with an England squad three years later.

Given that he's not a regular starter for Bristol, I'm surprised to see his as far up the pecking order as he is. He's still young in prop terms, so maybe Jones sees him as a potential project and wants a closer look, he offers a lot more in the loose than any eligible prop I can think of other than Mako Vunipola.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Given that he's not a regular starter for Bristol, I'm surprised to see his as far up the pecking order as he is. He's still young in prop terms, so maybe Jones sees him as a potential project and wants a closer look, he offers a lot more in the loose than any eligible prop I can think of other than Mako Vunipola.

I'm guessing you haven't watched much of Sinckler, Genge et al, then?!

 

[BPM]

Took the words out of my mouth ...

I'll be interested to see how Ford-Robinson progresses at Saints. I assume Waller will still be fist choice.

I would have thought Rapava-Ruskin would have been ahead of him but for his dumb ban.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Errr ... I'm not a big fan of Heinz and I don't really want to defend it , but actually there isn't that much of a choice right this second ...

The play-offs rule out: Robson and Simpson (Wasps), Maunder, Townsend and Chudley (Chiefs), Wigglesworth and Spencer (Saracens) and Youngs and Harrison (Leicester).

Care is already there and I think at least 7 out of the 9 I mentioned from the play-off contenders would be ahead of Heinz in normal circumstances.

The other contenders would be L. Dickson (Saints) Cook (Bath), Young (Newcastle), Mitchell (Sale) and Cliff (Bristol), who with the exception of Dickson, haven't been first choice for their clubs. Heinz has.

As long as it's just for the Barbarians game, I can live with it.

Pleased for Wilson and Beaumont but not sure about Ford-Robinson?

Fair points,
I'd have taken Cook over him though. Already got Care there as the experienced older head, might as well give a younger guy a shot (and who knows, if Cook refinds his form there's nothing to say he won't be an England player in the future) rather than some 30yr old journeyman.

 

[BPM]

Yeah - I can see where you're coming from, but I'm hoping it's just an oddity while the play-offs are taking place.

I forget how it works, but I think the players from the losing semi-finalists will be available for the Barbarians game, so hopefully a more interesting (and English) option will become available.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I'm guessing you haven't watched much of Sinckler, Genge et al, then?!

Ordinarily I'd explain my perspective, but it appears unnecessary condescension and arrogance is the order of the day, so I'll save the bother.

I guess you haven't watched much of Ford-Robinson then.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I've watched a decent amount, and haven't observed much that would put him anywhere near either of the two players I've mentioned in terms of ability in the loose.
He seems to have decent power, and hasn't really demonstrated anything that sticks in the mind as far as ball playing ability, in fact I recall him losing control of the ball in contact a fair bit.

Not sure where you're getting the condescension or arrogance from, you're the one suggesting he's significantly better than two players who are outstanding the in the loose (and have demonstrated such at fairly high levels), whilst not setting the world alight for a cellar dwelling team.

 

[MarkyH]

Hartley may be off with the Lions if Owens can't prove his fitness. Leaves England with only the handsome Luke Cowan-Dickie as our hooker. Who's next in line after that? Rob Buchanan is in the training party at the moment, then Jake Singleton but I don't know much about either? Buchanan just a standard hooker, no alarms but nothing special?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tommy Taylor,
He's better than LCD anyway.

Does leave us very short stocked for the barbarians game if wasps or chiefs make the final, though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Reckon hookers wise it has to be Taylor.
Then
Heywood or McGuigan most likely.

 

[MarkyH]

I somehow totally forgot about Taylor. Blimey, I'm a massive fan of Taylor. It was an Eddie Jones moment, totally forgetting to remember him

 

[Superalexmarket]

One of the two test matches will be in my hometown, I promise a lot of photos.

 

[MarkyH]

@Superalexmarket How do you think this series is going to pan out? Argentina looking strong and you have a full strength squad?

I think its going to be tight, but I'm quite excited to see some of the younger English players getting game time

 

[BPM]

Reckon hookers wise it has to be Taylor.
Then
Heywood or McGuigan most likely.

Agreed. Taylor is the obvious choice to tour if Hartley is called up by the Lions.

As with the Heinz situation at 9, the play-off absentees make it very difficult to gauge the pecking order in certain positions.

Previously, I would have said that Heywood and McGuigan would have been ahead of Buchanan, but in the event that Exeter reach the final and Buchanan has trained well in camp, I'd assume he'll be the reserve hooker for the Barbarians game at least.

 

[BPM]

I'd be interested to get everyone's thoughts on who is likely to enhance their stock in Argentina.

Eddie has said his aim is to come away with 3 or 4 new options but I think there's a chance it could end-up being a bit more.

I'm hoping Eddie gambles on the flankers and one (or both) of the Currys or Underhill show the beginnings of becoming a genuine option. Personally I think the Currys are the real deal and I think they will show-up well and although it's way too early to confidently predict, I reckon they will make the World Cup squad.

I also think Marchant and Solomona will have good tours. With Daly looking increasingly likely to drop in to the back three (hopefully at 15), I think Marchant has a very good chance of establishing himself as JJ's reserve and I think Solomona will outshine May (who he might end-up replacing).

I'll be interested to see how we line up. I would assume Care and Ford will be the starting 9/10 combination with Marchant at 13, May and Solomona on the wings and Brown at 15, but 12 is hard to call. On paper, Slade is the obvious choice, but he hasn't had a great season and is on the bench again for Exeter at the moment. Lozowski, James and Francis are all possible options and I think anyone of those could potentially usurp Slade.

At prop, I think whoever performs better out of Williams and Collier has a very good chance of forcing their way in to the EPS. Cole and Sinckler are the obvious first and second choices, but Hill's been in poor form and I think Eddie wants a scrummaging tighthead which probably favours the new guys. I'm a Quins fan, but my money is on Williams.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Don't think Collier will come anywhere close to senior England caps.

Hill will come good.

 

[BPM]

You're probably right ... Collier is underrated and I'd consider him to be one of the best scrummaging tightheads in the AP, but he's nowhere near as strong outside of the set piece and as I said, my money is on Williams coming out of the tour as the main challenger for an EPS place.

FWIW, I think Williams will start with Hill taking the 'finisher' role off the bench. I hope Hill kicks on soon. The question is whether he can do that with Saints/their current coaching set-up?

Speaking of Saints props, I wonder whether Brookes will get back to his best? For a while he was looking like the coming man.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So wonder what squad Eddie will pick for Baabaas now that we know who is missing.

Hoping for
1) Genge,
2) McGuigan,
3) Schonert
4) Barrow
5) Ewels
6) Robshaw
7) Curry
8) Beaumont
9) Care
10) Ford
11) May
12) James
13) Marchant
14) Solomona
15) Haley

16) Buchanan
17) Harrison (?)
18) Collier (?)
19) Williams
20) Ellis/Curry
21) Harrison
22) Lozowski
23) Woodward/Earle

 

[BPM]

So wonder what squad Eddie will pick for Baabaas now that we know who is missing.

Hoping for
1) Genge,
2) McGuigan,
3) Schonert
4) Barrow
5) Ewels
6) Robshaw
7) Curry
8) Beaumont
9) Care
10) Ford
11) May
12) James
13) Marchant
14) Solomona
15) Haley

16) Buchanan
17) Harrison (?)
18) Collier (?)
19) Williams
20) Ellis/Curry
21) Harrison
22) Lozowski
23) Woodward/Earle

Yeah. Quite difficult to pick a side from who's left. Presumably Eddie will call-up some reinforcements?

Going purely on the Argentina/training squads, I'd guess we'll be looking at something like:

1. Genge
2. Buchanan? (No Hartley, George, Cowan-Dickie, Taylor or Haywood)
3. Collier
4. Ewels
5. Spencer
6. Robshaw
7. Curry (Ben or Tom)
8. Beaumont
9. Care
10. Ford
11. May
12. Lozowski
13. Marchant
14. Solomona
15. Brown

16. McGuigan
17. Harrison
18. Schonert
19. Isiekwe
20. Wilson or Ellis
21. Heinz
22. James
23. Haley

I don't remember us putting out a side that callow. Probably something like 8 uncapped players starting up against what looks like a good Barbarians side.

 

[Goodey]

What about picking players like Ben Morgan, Alex Goode and Dave Attwood? Surely it doesn't have to be first choice or newbs.