England Six Nations thread

[Patchey]

Strongest Saxons side for a long time. If that was out first team we'd probably win a couple of Six Nations games.

Not sure about Clark as captain though, more of Lancaster picking favourites?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Clarke is a good premiership player. He has always had leadership qualities bit has had a massive disciple problem for a while, from memory he head butted an opposition player when playing for England under 20's or something.

He is very physical and a monster at rucking, tackling and carrying. He is a much better player than people give him credit for.......

But is he better than fearns? Gibson(I know he is inured)?

 

[Crapspray]

Let's hope he doesn't chin the ref. Never liked him; dirty player who's not even subtle. Shouldn't be in an England shirt in my opinion. It does seem like Lancaster's "I know him from my time at Leeds..." approach has given him the captaincy.

...from memory he head butted an opposition player when playing for England under 20's or something.

Twice. After throwing three punches earlier in the game. As Captain. In the final of the JWC.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've seen some videos of him. Don't need that sort of player in the squad and deffo not captain. I say he should get no warnings, any stupid crap like that again and he's out of the England team. Stuff like that costs teams games as well as being pathetic.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'll be depressed if that side doesn't win, without disrespect to Ireland Wolfhounds. Because that Saxons team is stacked with our future hope's in a billion different areas.

 

[Peat]

I'll be depressed if that side doesn't win, without disrespect to Ireland Wolfhounds. Because that Saxons team is stacked with our future hope's in a billion different areas.

Not quite true...

Waller/Catt - Future hopes I guess, but made somewhat irrelevant by Marler and Vunipola being younger and better, with Corbs and Mullan about the same age
George/Ward - George is a future hope, Ward's useful but will probably never be a test team staple
Mercey/Wilson - Mercey is filler. Wilson is a hope, but incredibly young, and probably only there due to us wanting to seal his allegiance. Revenge for Heathcote
Matthews/Kruis/Stooke - Future Hopes! But Launch/Lawes/Attwood/Slater/Kitchener already gives us a ton of long term options
Clark - Good player but one we don't really need in the seniors and one I hope never plays for them
Wallace - Future hope, although options
Ewers/Dickinson - See hooker, change names

Simpson/Lewis - Simpson is the player I want to see perform most. Lewis, eh, will probably never really be involved.
Burns/Slade - Yes
Sharples - Good club talent, maybe not an international, not sure if matters with the depth going on
Hill - Yeah
Hopper - No
Watson - Would be a kick in the teeth if he didn't make it but again, depth looks reasonable
Daly/Miller - Big hope. Miller could make something of himself too actually

So, all in all... I dunno, about half of its our future hope? A lot of it is very much the future. Wilson's only 19 at a guess, Stooke/Hill/Slade all really young too... there's about five or so guys who I feel could be a very big part of England but who need to take the opportunity fast; Simpson, Burns, Daly, Wallace and... uh, no, that might be it. Watson I guess as his chance is imminent, but equally he has tons of time ahead of him. Those are the five guys who I really hope lay down markers the most.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Agree with much of that Peat.
When I say future hope I don't mean that they are the sole hopes in that position - I mean with England and our playing pool as well as a pretty stable league with opportunities for young talent we should always have numerous options.

If you're widening it beyond future hopes to every player who is "in with a chance of an England future" that's significant too, because the example of guys like Tom Youngs just really shows how quickly players can grow and develop in the right set-up.
It'd be really interesting to look at our current England squad and assess how many of them looked like 'future hope' 4 years ago or whatever. The obvious difficulty with our squad though is that because they're young, lots of them we had no awareness of them 4 years ago.

Looking at the above: well first I haven't a clue who Lewis is, shame on me. I would certainly classify players like Ward, Dickinson, and Mathews as players who are not future hopes but certainly have it in them to 'improve their lot' and 'do a tom youngs', so to speak.

The reality for England is that a smaller fraction of our 'hope's will make it to the top, as compared to other home nations. My opinion is that its simply because of access to game-time - because there's still only 1 first XV in which to get the game-time to make it to the next level. I think it's related to the question people ask of why are England not better considering their playing pool. Imo world class players have the talent, but its solidified on the front line. If you never make it to the front-line, you're never going to fulfil your potential. I think it's this way round rather than 'He didn't make it into the England set-up because he was never good enough'.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Why is Matthews in the same group as Dickinson and Ward.... he's only 22.

Nice to see 9 of the 23 are from the West Country.
Improving Cornwall's rugby infrastructure (basically getting the Pirates their own ground and into the premiership) could do wonders for the English game IMO.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Amongst other things he plays in a position which threatens to be incredibly competitive in a few years and therefore even though he's young and the futures open, he's an outside bet. Again, got to remember that Launchbury is also 22, and Stooke 20..

 

[Peat]

Matthews has taken a while to mature because he's at a big club and he's got a big frame but I have high hopes for him. There didn't look like there was much between him and Launchbury back in 2011. Matthews, if he comes through as good as I hope, could be a huge boon to our set piece.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Quins who decided not to offer a senior professional contract to Joe Launchbury!

 

[Patchey]

I sometimes dream at nights that Quins offered Launchbury a contract and him and Matthews were lining up as our long term second rows.

 

[McTallshort]

Let's hope he doesn't chin the ref. Never liked him; dirty player who's not even subtle. Shouldn't be in an England shirt in my opinion. It does seem like Lancaster's "I know him from my time at Leeds..." approach has given him the captaincy.



Twice. After throwing three punches earlier in the game. As Captain. In the final of the JWC.

People are allowed to grow up, how were you in your teens?

 

[Peat]

People are allowed to grow up, how were you in your teens?

Not growing up into a guy who deliberately breaks people's arms on rugby pitches.

 

[j'nuh]

People are allowed to grow up, how were you in your teens?

He deliberately hyperextended and broke Hawkins' arm just two years ago...

Anyway, on topic, Peat, I think you're being a little harsh on some of those players. It isn't rare for some players to become quality when older. Parling got his first cap at 28. There are very few players in that team that I would discard from being an England potential within 5 years.

Also, I'm surprised you don't have Stooke in your high hopes section. Stooke's not even out of the academy, and he's irreplaceable for Gloucester, is on course to land player of the season (young and senior imo) at the club, is already amongst the top 4s in the league etc. I think the last lock to break out so fast and young, was Launchbury. I can't see past 4. Stooke 6. Launchbury in the long term...

The only player I really don't see making the England full squad is Lewis. Robson should overtake him before long.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He deliberately hyperextended and broke Hawkins' arm just two years ago...

Anyway, on topic, Peat, I think you're being a little harsh on some of those players. It isn't rare for some players to become quality when older. Parling got his first cap at 28. There are very few players in that team that I would discard from being an England potential within 5 years.

Also, I'm surprised you don't have Stooke in your high hopes section. Stooke's not even out of the academy, and he's irreplaceable for Gloucester, is on course to land player of the season (young and senior imo) at the club, is already amongst the top 4s in the league etc. I think the last lock to break out so fast and young, was Launchbury. I can't see past 4. Stooke 6. Launchbury in the long term...

The only player I really don't see making the England full squad is Lewis. Robson should overtake him before long.

As a Leicester fan I prefer Slater plays mainly lock but physical enough to play 6 and fast enough to play 8, or even Kitchener I he can keep going the way he is he will take parling place in the not so distant future.,

 

[ratsapprentice]

Given the volume of media duties Nowell is being given I have a feeling that he might be getting a start against France.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've no qualms with that - Nowell is ace. He's been slightly forgotten about with all the press Watson has been getting recently.
It's just a shame that Ashton is on the other wing. Lancaster's reasoning will be no wanting too many inexperienced players/wanting the experience there....but realistically can they do much worse than Ashton? He misses tackles, isn't a great kicker and gives away a fair few penalties...what more could they do?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I wonder if that "try" against Argentina was look at by the TMO and not would Lancaster still chose him or would he have had to drop him?

 

[B10]

I really hope Nowell gets a chance. I've watched a lot of the Chiefs for the last few years and he's been really good, solid but also got some great attacking skills.

Also, theres a lot of excitement down here in Cornwall about him helping put Cornish rugby back on the map. The first Cornish back to play since Olly Barkley.