England Six Nations Squad 2012

[Saintjay]

What's with all this talk of bias Jonno has gone

I am not feeling much love directed towards the Sarries players apart from prehaps Strettle the others all deserve there place in my opinion.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Surely it's not all that bad to display bias towards the league champions in any case.

 

[Saintjay]

Surely it's not all that bad to display bias towards the league champions in any case.

You may have a point. I just direct all my ill feelings at Leicester Tigers. Anyone but them kind of thing going on

 

[Thingimubob]

To young , to inexperience . Why no Easter he should be in on form alone ! Lose to Scotland then it's off to Italy with no confidence look what they did to France last year ! Then Wales at home we could be 0-3 with France and Ireland to play . Winning brings confidence and brings the team together , losing breaks confidence . Look at the 2003 team it's all about winning !

Well the whole blooding the youth thing has worked pretty damn well for Wales so far with the emergence of the likes of North, Faletau, Lydiate and Warburton. England are definitely taking a step in the right direction by finally picking the youth in bulk, though still could've added a few more if you ask me.
I thought that Quins winger Stegmann might have had a chance in at least the Saxons, been very impressed with what I've seen of him.

 

[Daniel Richards]

True Wales have done it with youth but and it is a big but they have four great coaches ? Do England ?

 

[Peat]

What's with all this talk of bias Jonno has gone

I am not feeling much love directed towards the Sarries players apart from prehaps Strettle the others all deserve there place in my opinion.

Surely it's not all that bad to display bias towards the league champions in any case.

It is. Pick the right players, regardless of who they play for.

Andy Saull is not a better openside than David Seymour. He might be a better bet for the future - but the same logic goes against Mouritz Botha; Botha has not been in great form, is not an outstanding player, he does not add a wealth of top class experience for players to draw off of and at the age of 29 is not one for the future.

As for Alex Goode covering fly-half that's so incomprehensible than the mind boggles. If they wanted fly-half/full-back cover, Freddie Burns would have been a far better shout. If they think Goode is England's 4th best fly-half then I think they're badly wrong.

There's also no way that Calum Clark would have been selected if he hadn't worked with Lancaster at Leeds.

Frankly, Johnson showed far less bias towards Tigers players.

On the flip side; it's only natural for international coaches to have a higher opinion of players they've worked with and when building a new squad in a short time like this, having players who know the score is a boon.

Save it's not really a new squad and I expect international coaches to rise above that natural urge anyway.

Not that this is massively relevant, victory will excuse all of this, defeat will give us more important things to argue about.

 

[RandV]

I am really surprised by all the negativity to the squad. Lancaster had to make some calls and he picked the ones he picked. It's not like he could just pick who ever he wanted anyway. He has, I think, the possibility to replace only 10 of the EPS, and 4 (?) extra due to the International retirements (can't remember who has retired, has Shaw? He's getting close to the national pension age, so I assume he has).

On the whole, with the constraints he has (limited numbers of new players mentioned above, lack of depth of top flight class in certain key areas like hooker, 7, & 8) I think this squad is way superior to 3.5 years of Jonno picked squads. Us fans often have favourite players we'd want to see (for me, 12Trees), but it is about balance, risk, form, partnerships.

For example, assuming Flood and Manu are out for the Scotland game, I'm happy to concede that with the lack of experience with the available players (thanks Jonno), we are probably better fielding a group of players who start week in week out together, than an unfounded partnership of a mix and match of our preferred names. For me, Hodgson, Farrel and Barritt at least understand how to play as a unit, albeit a tad dull (though they seem to know how to win!)

 

[Saintjay]

True Wales have done it with youth but and it is a big but they have four great coaches ? Do England ?

I don't want to take any thing from Wales as they did well above and beyond what was expected in the RWC. People seem to forget that they only won the same amount of games as England. They have a number of young players that burst onto the scene because of circumstances and the fact the older players from the 2008 area were not good enough. Englands youth was just not given a chance by Jono due to him going with the players with some experience that prehaps were past it.

When you look at the youth in deph England are probably in a better position than Wales. Wales u20 got hammered in the summer by the baby blacks 92-0. That does not go well for what else is to come for Wales in the future.

As for Wales having four great coaches I am not sure. You coud say they are good but not great.

 

[j-dawg]

I must be the only one who still wants Shaw in there...

 

[Daniel Richards]

I don't want to take any thing from Wales as they did well above and beyond what was expected in the RWC. People seem to forget that they only won the same amount of games as England. They have a number of young players that burst onto the scene because of circumstances and the fact the older players from the 2008 area were not good enough. Englands youth was just not given a chance by Jono due to him going with the players with some experience that prehaps were past it.

When you look at the youth in deph England are probably in a better position than Wales. Wales u20 got hammered in the summer by the baby blacks 92-0. That does not go well for what else is to come for Wales in the future.

As for Wales having four great coaches I am not sure. You coud say they are good but not great.

Ok two great coaches in gatland and Edwards , good howley , Jenkins , mc bride ? The first 3 were great for wasps and are doing great things for Wales

IMHO .
Six nations

1 Wales
2 France
3 Ireland
4 Scotland
5 England
6 Italy

 

[Daniel Richards]

I must be the only one who still wants Shaw in there...

I would still have him and Easter .

 

[Peat]

I must be the only one who still wants Shaw in there...

Why?!

 

[Aedaphon]

Ok two great coaches in gatland and Edwards , good howley , Jenkins , mc bride ? The first 3 were great for wasps and are doing great things for Wales

IMHO .
Six nations

1 Wales
2 France
3 Ireland
4 Scotland
5 England
6 Italy

And Easter too? Even if he is on form for Quins, he is not going anywhere near the 2015 squad. As an international his inclusion has been acceptable but he's never been a standout backrow. Given that Morgan is 22 and qualified to play for England it would have been absolutely mad not to pick him above Easter.

Wales have been absolutely outstanding this year and it's because they've been willing to risk more than a few losses over the past 2-3 years for the sake of building a squad that will last at least 4 years. Holding onto Easter is exactly the kind of thing that would screw us over for the next 4.

And Scotland to beat us? I would not be all that surprised if we came 4th with an inexperienced squad but even then we're not suffering nearly as badly as Scotland are. They have a couple of high standard international players but, barring an absolutely disastrous performance, nothing that England could not handle.

 

[gingergenius]

I would still have him and Easter .

Is your name Martin Johnson?

 

[Daniel Richards]

Is your name Martin Johnson?

Lol no I'm not but when your 12 - 6 down in the rain and mud in murryfield itwould be good for robshaw , wood to look round and see Easter and shaw they been there and done it ( won in Paris , been in world cup final , won in murryfield ) they just have bags of experience and that ain't a bad thing to have with 16 crazy scots coming for your blood ( the extra one is the crowd).

 

[Daniel Richards]

And Easter too? Even if he is on form for Quins, he is not going anywhere near the 2015 squad. As an international his inclusion has been acceptable but he's never been a standout backrow. Given that Morgan is 22 and qualified to play for England it would have been absolutely mad not to pick him above Easter.

Wales have been absolutely outstanding this year and it's because they've been willing to risk more than a few losses over the past 2-3 years for the sake of building a squad that will last at least 4 years. Holding onto Easter is exactly the kind of thing that would screw us over for the next 4.

And Scotland to beat us? I would not be all that surprised if we came 4th with an inexperienced squad but even then we're not suffering nearly as badly as Scotland are. They have a couple of high standard international players but, barring an absolutely disastrous performance, nothing that England could not handle.[/QUOTE

Was not saying take him to 2015 was saying use him to cement the future back row . I think he has a role to play taking a leadership group on its first steps towards 2015 helping them mature as a group , if you look at the squad there is only one no.8 . I would say take them both.

 

[Peat]

If I thought Easter would provide a good example to the youngsters and provide a superior option in play, I'd pick him in a heartbeat. But I think he fails to do both.

 

[Daniel Richards]

If I thought Easter would provide a good example to the youngsters and provide a superior option in play, I'd pick him in a heartbeat. But I think he fails to do both.

Ok you tell me who are the guys to glue this team together when it goes wrong , and I guarantee you it will go wrong!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not Nick Easter.
Not as if he leads from the front is it?

 

[Saintjay]

Ok you tell me who are the guys to glue this team together when it goes wrong , and I guarantee you it will go wrong!

Well take the Northampton Saints main England five they have around 100 caps between them now. Look at Wales key players such as Priestland, Halfpenny, Faletau, North, Lydiate around 80 caps.

So if the Welsh players can stand toe to toe on a wet muddy pitch together. I would expect an England team to be capable of doing that too.

Wood and Robshaw are both thought of as possible leaders. Hartley does it for the Saints. So the team are not short on leaders and if there heads go down and they are not giving it 100% I would expect them to get dropped from the squad.