England Rugby 2019/20 Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

But then, IMO, the clubs shouldn't be playing first XV matches during the 6N either - they should be playing development (cap limited) sides against each other, and the champioship clubs. - joined up thinking and all that

I agree but at the same time the Saxons should also be mainly for development players

 

[Which Tyler]

I agree but at the same time the Saxons should also be mainly for development players

It should - but not necessarily the same development players - Saxons should be for fringe and budding internationals, giving them a chance in a different environment from their standard; a chance at taking on board different ideas from different coaches, answerable to a different authority, and with different questions asked of them - essentially, can they step up to international level, and get used to a training camp away from home for several weeks.

On the one hand, you could take someone like Jordan Olowofela and take him out of his comfort zone, test him out with new coaches, different systems and team-mates he never met before the training camp; and see how he goes up against whoever's up and coming in Ireland or France.
On the other hand, you could take someone like Jordan Olowofela, and leave him in his comfort zone, with coaches, systems, team mates he's accustomed to; and see how he goes against whoever's up and coming in Nothampton (and that he's played against at academy level) or whoever's gnarled and experienced from Bedford trying to take a big scalp.


Not that I feel all that strongly about a Saxons level 6N competition, and would happily sacrifice that desire if we got summer tours and a proper competition for club development, spanning both Prem and Champ (I'm still annoyed that we completely pissed away the opportunity to do anything useful with the AWC once the Welsh left).

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Saxons should be for fringe and budding internationals, giving them a chance in a different environment from their standard

Exactly. Should be a credible B team where fringe / budding doesn't necessarily mean outright youth. Should be a mix - as well as looking long term its just as interesting to see if a Rapava-Ruskin, Schonert or Devoto can cut it. Those types might be required as more immediate cover and it would be nice to have an idea of how they would respond.

 

[Nudger]

I doubt the Saxons turn much of a profit so the blazers wouldn't be winners and unfortunately they're the ones organising the games.

I think its more todo with not wanting u21's being poached

 

[mkersyshull]

It should - but not necessarily the same development players - Saxons should be for fringe and budding internationals, giving them a chance in a different environment from their standard; a chance at taking on board different ideas from different coaches, answerable to a different authority, and with different questions asked of them - essentially, can they step up to international level, and get used to a training camp away from home for several weeks.

On the one hand, you could take someone like Jordan Olowofela and take him out of his comfort zone, test him out with new coaches, different systems and team-mates he never met before the training camp; and see how he goes up against whoever's up and coming in Ireland or France.
On the other hand, you could take someone like Jordan Olowofela, and leave him in his comfort zone, with coaches, systems, team mates he's accustomed to; and see how he goes against whoever's up and coming in Nothampton (and that he's played against at academy level) or whoever's gnarled and experienced from Bedford trying to take a big scalp.


Not that I feel all that strongly about a Saxons level 6N competition, and would happily sacrifice that desire if we got summer tours and a proper competition for club development, spanning both Prem and Champ (I'm still annoyed that we completely pissed away the opportunity to do anything useful with the AWC once the Welsh left).

Surely the A League could include some championship sides to help bridge the gap?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Its a bit of a transitional year. We start away to what's likely to be a youngish French team and we also need to start blooding some new players. How about?

Marler If available.
LCD Nothing against George, just a reward for good form and to keep George on his toes. I like LCD's slightly more abrasive, less wing lurking, style.
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt Need to see what he can do. Let's give him a proper run, not 5 minutes.
Spencer
Farrell
May
Devoto Lets get reckless and try a 12 in the 12 shirt.
Tuilagi Assuming Slade's injured. Tough on JJ.
Nowell Assuming Coka won't be fit
Watson If fit

Genge He's the future, we know what Mako can, and can't, do.
George
Williams
Isiekwe Tough on Lawes, but he will bounce back.
Willis Leaving out Binny is a big call and v unlikely to happen, but Willis is in form, gives more options and if nothing else would give Binny a wake up.
Randall Tough on Heinz who's pretty steady, but we need to look forward.
Ford
Daly

That's what I'd like, but obvs won't be anything like that.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

LCD Nothing against George, just a reward for good form and to keep George on his toes. I like LCD's slightly more abrasive, less wing lurking, style.

In fairness to George, if at this level a player is 'wing-lurking' its entirely by the coach's design rather than the players' laziness.

I have a sneaking suspicion that EJ will include Lawrence, hence his omission from the U20s. Wasn't he selected for the 2018 Tour of SA before he got injured?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

In fairness to George, if at this level a player is 'wing-lurking' its entirely by the coach's design rather than the players' laziness.

I have a sneaking suspicion that EJ will include Lawrence, hence his omission from the U20s. Wasn't he selected for the 2018 Tour of SA before he got injured?

Pretty sure he's just too old.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pretty sure he's just too old.

Yeah, I think eligible for the 6N but not the World Cup, which is what they prioritise

 

[Jashay]

Its a bit of a transitional year. We start away to what's likely to be a youngish French team and we also need to start blooding some new players. How about?

Fully on board, but I'd also like to see a new tighthead. No idea who the next cab off the rank is, though. Paul Hill? Is Schonert eligible? Hayes/Painter if you want some extreme youth?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We should cap Will Griff John before the Welsh get their filthy paws all over him

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Fully on board, but I'd also like to see a new tighthead. No idea who the next cab off the rank is, though. Paul Hill? Is Schonert eligible? Hayes/Painter if you want some extreme youth?

Schonert's eligible. Will Stuart's getting good reviews at Barf.

 

[Reiser99]

Here's an interesting question that always comes up each year. How well represented should the bottom clubs be? Saracens maybe ignore as they would be second if not for off-field rule-breaking. Leicester are currently bottom in terms of form, but should that affect individual players. Having said that, Old Hooker's team above had 4 in the 23 and that's about 1/6th of the team, yet there are 10 teams in the premiership. On the flip side Gloucester have really been improving over the last few years, but they always seem to have their players overlooked. Chiefs have had a few more, but considering they are consistently at the top some players can definitely feel hard done by.

Just curious about what everyone thinks. Btw I'm not saying if a team is at the bottom players shouldn't be picked from it, but more should the club's position be one (of many) considerations when selecting a squad, even if it's just a small consideration?

 

[Scotty]

Schonert's eligible. Will Stuart's getting good reviews at Barf.

I think we will have Sinks Williams and Stuart at THP as all are on form. Pretty sure stuart is a strong scrummages he doesnt give many pens away.

Its the back row i can work out who it will be.

TCurry Underhill and Billy will be there, Dombrant to take injured Wilson's spot, 6/8. Then there is Jack Willis, Ludlum, Ben curry(reports hes in but could be rumours), Ben Earl and Simmonds all on form.


On should bottom teams players be picked, i think the answer is yes, Leicester could be bottom but manu is still a great player, Chiefs have loads of great players but we win through our systems so everyone work hard and putting a shift in. So when we rest players or during 6N we can still win.

Often the teams at the bottom can be a mix of bad players and bad coaching. Leicester is a prime examples, multiple England player that we wouldnt be without but still not getting many wins. Non of this means a player in these teams doesnt deserve a shot IMO

 

[Lé Ddanno]

If Kruis is truly off to Japan then there's no sense in handing him any more caps.

 

[WarriorKelv]

Its a bit of a transitional year. We start away to what's likely to be a youngish French team and we also need to start blooding some new players. How about?

Marler If available.
LCD Nothing against George, just a reward for good form and to keep George on his toes. I like LCD's slightly more abrasive, less wing lurking, style.
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt Need to see what he can do. Let's give him a proper run, not 5 minutes.
Spencer
Farrell
May
Devoto Lets get reckless and try a 12 in the 12 shirt.
Tuilagi Assuming Slade's injured. Tough on JJ.
Nowell Assuming Coka won't be fit
Watson If fit

Genge He's the future, we know what Mako can, and can't, do.
George
Williams
Isiekwe Tough on Lawes, but he will bounce back.
Willis Leaving out Binny is a big call and v unlikely to happen, but Willis is in form, gives more options and if nothing else would give Binny a wake up.
Randall Tough on Heinz who's pretty steady, but we need to look forward.
Ford
Daly

That's what I'd like, but obvs won't be anything like that.

I'd go:

Mako
George
Sinkler
Itoje
Lawes
T. Curry
Underhill
Billy V
Spencer
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Tuilagi
May
Watson

LCD
Marler
Williams
Isiekwe
Dombrandt
Youngs
Joseph
Nowell

Dunn
Genge
Stuart
Stooke
B. Curry
Smith
Devoto
Lawrence
Thorley
Furbank

 

[Scotty]

I'd go:

Mako
George
Sinkler
Itoje
Lawes
T. Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt
Spencer
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Tuilagi
May
Watson

LCD
Marler
Williams
Isiekwe
Dombrandt
Youngs
Joseph
Nowell

Dunn
Genge
Stuart
Stooke
B. Curry
Smith
Devoto
Lawrence
Thorley
Furbank

Im not sold on Itoje Lawes but not sure who id replace him with. Kruis like player.

Genge to start mako Bench IMO he needs gametime and Mako makes more of an impact from the bench than Marler.

Also who is your 8 and 20 seen as you gave Dombrandt twice.

11. Watson
15. Daly
Wether or not Watson is an out and out better FB Daly fits our game plan in attack, a playmaker. And i think Daly's worst position is wing given he is used to having the space of a 13/15 i always found him getting taken to touch abit too easy. And yes i know Daly isnt the greatest defencive FB but in that squad he is the best fit.

Is stooke fit atm?
Honerable mention to jack Willis, ben Earl and Sam Simmonds, all on form and pushing

 

[WarriorKelv]

Im not sold on Itoje Lawes but not sure who id replace him with. Kruis like player.

Genge to start mako Bench IMO he needs gametime and Mako makes more of an impact from the bench than Marler.

Also who is your 8 and 20 seen as you gave Dombrandt twice.

11. Watson
15. Daly
Wether or not Watson is an out and out better FB Daly fits our game plan in attack, a playmaker. And i think Daly's worst position is wing given he is used to having the space of a 13/15 i always found him getting taken to touch abit too easy. And yes i know Daly isnt the greatest defencive FB but in that squad he is the best fit.

Is stooke fit atm?
Honerable mention to jack Willis, ben Earl and Sam Simmonds, all on form and pushing

Nick Isiekwe, Jonny Hill and Elliott Stooke for me are the three I would bring in but I don't think we would drop Kruis, Launchbury and Lawes so i've kept Lawes in. As far as I know Stooke is fit.

Genge should get a chance to start but more probably against Scotland and Italy than France tbh. Plus we all know Mako will start.

I meant to put Billy V at 8 and Dombrandt at 20 although I wouldn't mind any of the others coming in tbh but Dombrandt is the replacement for Wilson and B. Curry has been knocking on the door for a while. The others will get their chance soon although I wouldn't mind them being picked it's a highly competitive area.

Yes I am sure we will go 11. May 14. Watson 15. Daly but i'm massively hoping we don't but with no Slade Eddie will want Daly in the side for his kicking ability. I just put Watson at 15 more out of hope tbh.

 

[Scotty]

Just read nick tompkins from sarries could be getting a Wales call up...i didnt even know he was eligible and big loss for us if true.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Born in South London, Sarries academy, all England age grades (including a junior world cup win), England Saxons

As welsh as they come, butt



Love there's a thread about England talking to LRZ when he first signed for Gloucester academy and how we're trying to poach the world, but Wales are set to name two more Englishmen in their squad and not a whisper...