England Rugby 2019/20 Thread

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Am I right in saying that Cipriani in the 3rd SA test in 2018 was the only time anyone other than Ford or Farrell has played 10 in a capped game under Jones?

Can't think of another time - that's mental really

 

[Geordie]

Slade should start at 13 and not move anywhere else mid match unless really forced by injury. He's found his niche and is looking very good. Let's start Lawrence at 12.

I can't watch JJ now without getting really annoyed at his little jump before he does anything with the ball. Still a decent player but not first choice for me.

Interesting that i think the opposite. I find him inconsistent and not fully transferring his club ability to the international stage. We see brief glimpses of his talent, but not enough. I want to see him move to 12 and really put his stamp on games...controlling as a second playmaker who can also run well with the ball. Then have a real strike runner like Joseph / Marchant / Lawrence to go in the 13 spot.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Can't think of another time - that's mental really

Especially when you consider that in the same amount of time the ABs have had Beauden, Cruden, Sopoaga, DMac, Mo'unga, Ioane (Josh), Jordie and Perenara.

 

[Scotty]

Yeah wtf, I think I skimmed over it before
Dombrandt being dropped is ludicrous

Can only hope Eddie really is shackled by the EPS changes clause.

I mean I like Ludlam, but him over Simmonds? Come on...

I know people on here like dunking on Isiekwe atm, but he should be there especially as injury replacement for Lawes (so as a lock/6 hybrid).

I want to know why EJ doesnt rate Dombrandt? Personality or not hard enough working in training because his skill set and ceiling is high IMO.

Ludlam shouldnt be ahead of Simmonds or Dombrandt or Earl or Willis. High workrate and very abrasive but not got the skill of these players.

Generally happy with the team part from heinz instead of Spencer and Ludlam instead of Dombrandt, or simmonds.

J Simmonds deserves a chance i think too but oh well

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Elliot Daly, George Ford and Joe Marler will join up with the squad for reconditioning.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Especially when you consider that in the same amount of time the ABs have had Beauden, Cruden, Sopoaga, DMac, Mo'unga, Ioane (Josh), Jordie and Perenara.

Maybe that's the reason NZ has been somewhat underperforming recently.
How many 10's did NZ go through when Carter was around?

It's crazy that both Ford and Faz really could have another RWC cycle.


I think SA is pretty similar in their 10's with Pollard.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Maybe that's the reason NZ has been somewhat underperforming recently.
How many 10's did NZ go through when Carter was around?

It's crazy that both Ford and Faz really could have another RWC cycle.

Oh yeah it's by no means a criticism, I just find it interesting. EJ's talked at length about how he believes rugby positions are becoming more and more interchangeable to the point that he's played Singleton at hooker and at flank, Marler at loosehead and tighthead, Itoje, Lawes, Ewels, Shields and Hughes in both the second and back row, Slade, Joseph, Daly and Nowell at both centre and in the back three, has swapped Vunipola and Cokonasiga around mid-game and yet none of Slade, Francis or Lozowski have covered 10, even at the end of games. Just seems odd to me.

 

[Geordie]

One of Englands "problems" has always been too much choice (numbers not necessarily quality) , always the new kid on the block coming through etc etc. Eddie clearly has no interest in that, his head isnt swayed by the next cab on the rank so to speak. He has his set core and some peripherals around it.

You have to be playing bloody well...or able to perform his instructions to the letter to make the squad.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I can't believe we'd stick with Ford and Farrell when we could really do with some more competition at 10 and 12 in the squad.

 

[Reiser99]

I can't believe we'd stick with Ford and Farrell when we could really do with some more competition at 10 and 12 in the squad.

Honestly more competition at 10 and 12 is the least of our worries. 8 & 9 are far worse.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Honestly more competition at 10 and 12 is the least of our worries. 8 & 9 are far worse.

8 shouldn't even be an issue. EJ just refuses to pick the good options.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

8 shouldn't even be an issue. EJ just refuses to pick the good options.

EJ is a dick, he constantly refuses to pick form players who get media attention just because he can. If he got over himself we could have won the World Cup, I really believe that he's lack of building a proper rounded squad cost us.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Think you are doing SA a disservice in that department.

 

[Scotty]

8 shouldn't even be an issue. EJ just refuses to pick the good options.

Its as much the reasoning as them not getting picked.

Why was Dombrandt dropped is what i want to know more than anything else, why is Heinz still there and Spencer cant get in..., on a lesser note why Umaga over Simmonds? Id go Simmonds personally but especially with his kicking percentages and big game experience. Plus he also has a mean step. Umaga maybe more flare which he wants behind Faz.

Guess we wont know.

 

[BPM]

EJ is a dick, he constantly refuses to pick form players who get media attention just because he can. If he got over himself we could have won the World Cup, I really believe that he's lack of building a proper rounded squad cost us.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

I don't like some of Eddie's ways, but do you really think that he doesn't pick players just because he wants to rile the media? As a guy who is known for his relentless will to win and meticulous attention to detail, I think it's more likely he makes his decisions based upon a lot of data we don't see ...

Barring a few changes, most of us would have taken 85/90% of the same players to the RWC. Given we only lost in the final, what selections do you really think would have made the difference? Starting Marler might have helped, but I'd argue our issues in the final were more mental than selection-related.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

I don't like some of Eddie's ways, but do you really think that he doesn't pick players just because he wants to rile the media? As a guy who is known for his relentless will to win and meticulous attention to detail, I think it's more likely he makes his decisions based upon a lot of data we don't see ...

Barring a few changes, most of us would have taken 85/90% of the same players to the RWC. Given we only lost in the final, what selections do you really think would have made the difference? Starting Marler might have helped, but I'd argue our issues in the final were more mental than selection-related.

I mean Marler is an easy one really, if you asked any rugby forum poster who they'd want in a scrum vs SA, Marler or Mako, we would all of said Marler.

This is my opinion and not fact, but I look at how England through EJ time has played well in patches and then bottled It in key matches. It tells me that the players were mentally the wrong ones. Key decision makers like Young's, ford, farell etc have fallen apart quite a few times when it mattered.

Would we have won with Ciprinai in the team, or with a better SH or some of the other discussion points, I don't know and I'm not saying we'd be better but it does seem like Jones sticks to what doesn't work for way too long. Maybe it's because of spent all day drinking cider by the beach (in the rain lol) but I think Jones refuses to select players who get media traction.

 

[BPM]

Maybe sometimes he does, but the main examples of that have been Cipriani and Armand.

Cipriani definitely could and possibly should have added something for England, but Eddie was hardly the first to have reservations about him and generally, the overall sentiment seems to be that the cons outweigh the pros.

Armand deserved to be treated better than he was, but by the time the World Cup came around, he was already yesterday's news for Exeter so maybe Eddie saw enough to be ahead of the curve on that?

I have my gripes with him too. For example, I would never have picked Willi Heinz and certainly would not pick him now. Robson and Spencer should have had a lot more games and how Heinz is still in the picture baffles me. I'm also annoyed we missed out on Nick Tompkins who I think could have been very useful for us.

Overall though, I'm pretty happy with the squad. It's only three or four choices different to what mine would have been,

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think EJ mostly makes the right choices but it is undeniable he has a massive blind spot when it comes to 9's. If the current 9's were top level world class players or still young then it would be excusable but they aren't even close on either count, they are both old and bang average. We keep them through to the end of the year and that's another year where we have still not blooded any new 9.

I'd say the main examples are actually Robson and Simpson for players who missed out. Admittedly Jones did try to include both and misfortune prevented them from participating but it was too little too late and then not followed up.

 

[BPM]

I meant that Cipriani and Armand were the two players who had the most media backing but weren't selected apart from a couple of token appearances.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Eddie on cips

What Jones and Cipriani have said about each other

England head coach made some critical comments in his new book

www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk

Honestly I find it hard to disagree with anything he said in that.
Nothing I have seen from cips ever or since suggests he would've made one bit of difference to the England squad.