England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[TRF_Olyy]

I think he's right, honestly he was a good player for someone with no game time at Union he took to it quite well, just cock up by Bath and england stopped him on focusing on one position, I think the players not following Lancaster shows though how bad Lancaster was as a head coach.

That's one autobiography I can't wait to read.
Or have read to me on audible I that magical northern accent...

Very interested to see how the players who had the issues are - looking through the 2015 squad list Haskell, Wood and Easter spring out (there was the story of easter not giving a **** when we got knocked out and laughing and joking about it)

I would've said Farrell, Cause of the clashes between his Dad and Lancaster, but I'm not sure. Everyone who has ever played with Farrell says how good he is in the huddle/changing rooms(Paul Oconnel was singing his praises after the lions). Plus I imagine Burgess and Farrell got on well.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Very interested to see how the players who had the issues are - looking through the 2015 squad list Haskell, Wood and Easter spring out (there was the story of easter not giving a **** when we got knocked out and laughing and joking about it)

I would've said Farrell, Cause of the clashes between his Dad and Lancaster, but I'm not sure. Everyone who has ever played with Farrell says how good he is in the huddle/changing rooms(Paul Oconnel was singing his praises after the lions). Plus I imagine Burgess and Farrell got on well.

Doubt Haskell is one him and Burgess got on well by the sounds of it, joking about.
Wood 100% always seems like a prick and with Burgess playing Flanker for club might have been worried about him taking his spot.



Granted walking YC these days but he could've made it IMO.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just joined a season too late to realistically make the 2015 squad, especially as when he joined he was injured.
Fast tracking rarely works, especially when learning a new sport.

 

[Jakedood]

Just having had a look through that 2015 squad, I wonder if either of the Vunipola's would have been like that? We know Billy especially wasnt all that happy under Lancaster... can also see the likes of Tom Wood, maybe Danny Care? And even Joe Marler may have been like that. All speculation of course, but very interesting. Also Geoff Parling left pretty soon after the WC didn't he?
Lancaster did seem a little softer, so may have glossed over minor cracks in the squad, whereas can you imagine someone trying to complain about Eddie Jones in the squad?

 

[Which Tyler]

[Redacted] was one of those egos, demanding to play IC despite being better at BSF etc. Equally though. He's never been accused of losing us a RWC knock-out spot, despite what he keeps on telling us (well, maybe in social media, but anyone taking that sort of criticism seriously shouldn't be a professional sportsman).

Both Farrells would count as egos, whether [Redacted] was in their clique or not; it was pretty much an open secret that Burt (&Robshaw) had one clique, whilst Farrell (&Wood) led another. We were just used to it a little, given what had happened with the Wells&Ford clique during the reigns of Robinson, Ashton and Johnson.
Tom Wood was always a decisive ego, perfectly encapsulated by his reluctant volunteering of himself to take on the burden of captaincy

 

[McTallshort]

Very interested to see how the players who had the issues are - looking through the 2015 squad list Haskell, Wood and Easter spring out (there was the story of easter not giving a **** when we got knocked out and laughing and joking about it)

I would've said Farrell, Cause of the clashes between his Dad and Lancaster, but I'm not sure. Everyone who has ever played with Farrell says how good he is in the huddle/changing rooms(Paul Oconnel was singing his praises after the lions). Plus I imagine Burgess and Farrell got on well.

Wasn't that in the 2011 WC? Joking that he had missed out on £20K or something for not making it to a Semi Final.

 

[Pom in Exile]

So I'd rather look at how players did in their positions and whether they should be kept around for the 6N's than think about the RWC, because there are a few players pushing for spots after the AI's and I'd like to see them in a more competitive environment with a trophy on the line. While the AI's are entertaining, they don't quite have the same intensity and stakes as the 6N's.

LHP: Hepburn struggled against S.A and was part of the poor Japan start. He also didn't impress massively off the bench. Moon on the other hand took his chance and played extremely well. He was composed and secure in the scrum. He gave away only one penalty against Japan all Autumn and made 37 tackles missing 6 (3 against NZ). I think Genge and Vunipola when fit are above both, but Moon is a solid number 3 and I wouldn't mind him in the match 23 or even starting. Bit of depth is nice and just need Mako and Genge fit and playing well.
HK: George and Hartley competing for No.1 and for me it depends if you think we need Hartley's leadership. If you ignore NZ game with Retallick, then George's lineouts were fine. Lack of a 3rd option is a worry with no one picked beyond training camps or the wider squad. Taylor is probably best of the rest, but really needs some consistent game time after his long injury. LCD also a good back up, but not in the same league as George and Hartley.
THP: Big worry for me personally. Sinckler played excellently and should be no.1, though still worry about his temper. Williams was pretty average though and with Cole (aka penalty machine) as the only other real option it doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
LK: Still got depth here. Lawes played well mostly (ignore the ridiculous pass against NZ) and after S.A Itoje sorted out most of his silly penalties. Ewels looks like a reliable back up, and may be more in contention after this. Kruis played ok, but I still think he's lost some of his form that he had previously. With Launchbury coming back, I honestly think this position should be picked based on the opposition as there are 4-5 reliable players who will all do the job well, but all have different strengths.
FLK: Underhill was fantastic and hopefully will continue to develop. Curry looked good and I would be great to see him more regularly. Shields struggled at the start, but improved rapidly. At this stage I think Robshaw's days are numbered. However we need Curry and Underhill to stay fit. Hill was a waste against Japan coming on for only 5 minutes, but hopefully got something out of the training camps.
No.8: Wilson was fantastic and hopefully he's dislodged Hughes in the pecking order. I think he's definitely above Simmonds and should be back up for a fully fit Billy or above an unfit Billy who's just returned from injury. Mercer showed glimpses and was unlucky that England started so poorly against Japan. However he is one for the future and like Hill hopefully has benefited from the training camps.
SH: This is my biggest worry. Youngs is slow and limits the attack. Care is erratic at best and Wigs while reliable is getting older and won't give teams a surprise like Care or Youngs might. Robson doesn't seem to be even close to being considered, so I guess it will be Youngs to start and hope he finds his old form and for me Wigs as sub.
FH: Farrell played pretty well I thought, though I reckon Ford and Cips are better for the attack. However after this autumn with Te'o, I think Faz might stay at 10 for the 6N's. This position depends greatly on who is picked in midfield. If Te'o then Faz starts, if Faz in midfield then Ford.
IC: Te'o was just god damn awful (I know people might be bored of me saying this, so I'll back up with a few stats) 17 tackles with 6 missed, so over a third. S.A 8 runs for 4 metres with no breaks or defenders beaten, NZ 4 runs for 9 metres with no breaks or defenders beaten. Also apparently didn't pass once against NZ according to ESPN (if the stats are wrong it's their fault). Aus 13 runs for 19 metres with 1 clean break and 3 defenders beaten. Those stats are just shocking. Honestly I don't see him working at 12 right now and he needs to prove his form at club level to be even remotely considered again. Lozowski struggled in his game, but I think he too is one for the future and this WC is too soon for him.
OC: Slade was a mixed bag as he's always been with some nice touches ruined by some awful moments. He's definitely below a fit JJ and I think Manu will be above easily if he stays fit. Nowell is another player who needs to be played consistently in one position and I think he's similar to Daly in that there are better people who play solely in one position than him.
WG: May is first name on the team sheet for me and the only one if a definite position. Nowell is similar to his time at OC, in that he hasn't really shined anywhere. Ashton played well and showed he's still got skill. Would like to see more of his defence though. Cokanasiga was fantastic in his two games and if probably the dark horse for the squad now as he offers something only Manu really offers as well.
FB: Daly...great player but is becoming jack of all trades, master of none. Not secure under the high ball and it will be a real weakness against teams like Ireland. With Watson injured I think we have to stick with Brown for the WC as not securing the high ball will cost you territory and lose you games. TBH May looked more confident under the high ball than Daly.

Summary thoughts: England have made quite a bit of progress and started to look like a team that can adapt their play and have moved on from the tactics that were exposed earlier in the year. Personally attack is still a worry as I think it's far too predictable at times and Youngs is too slow to exploit opportunities. Discipline has been better, but still needs to improve. I want to see some real consistency in performances during the 6N's. Even if we don't win I want to be at least competing with every team and not looking like we've taken our foot off the gas as we did against NZ and Aus before half time and at the start with Japan. Play like NZ and go for the kill regardless of who you are up against. EJ also needs to settle on his centres and back row now and stick with it. There is no more time for experimenting and players like Curry and Underhill needs as much experience as they can get.

Agree with almost all of that, although I'd still take Robshaw over Shields.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wasn't that in the 2011 WC? Joking that he had missed out on £20K or something for not making it to a Semi Final.

That rings a bell actually, probably that instead.

Bring on the biographies, I love a scandal

 

[ncurd]

Reality is Brugess simply wasn't good enough for that level and hadn't spent enough time in the sport. All of us who watched him play for Bath that season could see it and the injury didn't help his progression. He showed real potential to be a really great BSF (not IC he never showed promise there). Did he cost us the world cup? No but less than 3 months later we moved Farrell to his position and played Ford at 10 and well the words undefeated year and grand slam comes to mind...

He has a right to not be blamed by the Dumbo's solely blaming him he was by far not our worst player but that doesn't change the fact he should never have been playing.

It was just one a myriad of decisions that Lancaster, Farrell and Catt made that EJ proved made us worse than actually were capable of being at the time.

 

[Scotty]

U20s training squad
Whole lot of senior experience in this lot:

Forwards:

Ollie Adkins (Gloucester), Josh Basham (Durham University), Will Capon (Bristol Bears), Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs), Andy Christie (Saracens), Alex Coles (Northampton Saints), Nic Dolly (Sale Sharks), Ben Donnell (London Irish), James Dun (Bristol Bears), Taylor Gough (Leicester Tigers), Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors), Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester), Joel Kpoku (Saracens), Jon Kpoku (Saracens), Samson Ma'asi (Northampton Saints), Tom Marshall (Newcastle Falcons), Kai Owen (Worcester Warriors), Alfie Petch (Exeter Chiefs), Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks), James Scott (Worcester Warriors), Marcus Street (Exeter Chiefs), Rusiate Tuima (Exeter Chiefs), Tom Willis (Wasps).

Backs:

Tom De Glanville (Bath), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints), Connor Doherty (Sale Sharks), Reece Dunn (Gloucester), Ollie Fox (Yorkshire Carnegie), Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish), Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons), Luke James (Sale Sharks), Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors), Sam Maunder (Exeter Chiefs), Cadan Murley (Harlequins), Cam Nordli-Kelemeti (Newcastle Falcons), Cam Redpath (Sale Sharks), Arron Reed (Sale Sharks), Tom Seabrook (Gloucester), Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints), Will Simonds (Wasps), Manu Vunipola (Saracens), Gus Warr (Sale Sharks), Kieran Wilkinson (Sale Sharks).

Ive been looking through the U20 training squad and made most of 15 just with the names i know, its actually devloping players who've avtually had prem experience, luke james is a full first team player as is hill and T Willis now. Im looking forward to this tournament.

Its good to see.

Only a few of positions i dont know
1. Marcus street
2.
3.
4. Joel kpoku
5. Rus tiuma
6. Ted hill
7. Tom willis
8. Josh basham
9. Sam maunder
10. Kieren Wilkinson
11. Fraiser dingwall
12. Cam redpath
13. Luke James
14. Caden murley
15.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ive been looking through the U20 training squad and made most of 15 just with the names i know, its actually devloping players who've avtually had prem experience, luke james is a full first team player as is hill and T Willis now. Im looking forward to this tournament.

Its good to see.

Only a few of positions i dont know
1. Marcus street
2.
3.
4. Joel kpoku
5. Rus tiuma
6. Ted hill
7. Tom willis
8. Josh basham
9. Sam maunder
10. Kieren Wilkinson
11. Fraiser dingwall
12. Cam redpath
13. Luke James
14. Caden murley
15.

Street's a tighthead and tbh I can't see Tuima coming straight in at lock. At 124kg he's barely a lineout option for a men's team; I can't see an U20s side getting him in the air too easily. I imagine he'll be in the back row or not at all, you need 2nd Rowers playing 2nd row.

 

[Greeno]

U20s training squad
Whole lot of senior experience in this lot:

Forwards:

Ollie Adkins (Gloucester), Josh Basham (Durham University), Will Capon (Bristol Bears), Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs), Andy Christie (Saracens), Alex Coles (Northampton Saints), Nic Dolly (Sale Sharks), Ben Donnell (London Irish), James Dun (Bristol Bears), Taylor Gough (Leicester Tigers), Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors), Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester), Joel Kpoku (Saracens), Jon Kpoku (Saracens), Samson Ma'asi (Northampton Saints), Tom Marshall (Newcastle Falcons), Kai Owen (Worcester Warriors), Alfie Petch (Exeter Chiefs), Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks), James Scott (Worcester Warriors), Marcus Street (Exeter Chiefs), Rusiate Tuima (Exeter Chiefs), Tom Willis (Wasps).

Backs:

Tom De Glanville (Bath), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints), Connor Doherty (Sale Sharks), Reece Dunn (Gloucester), Ollie Fox (Yorkshire Carnegie), Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish), Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons), Luke James (Sale Sharks), Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors), Sam Maunder (Exeter Chiefs), Cadan Murley (Harlequins), Cam Nordli-Kelemeti (Newcastle Falcons), Cam Redpath (Sale Sharks), Arron Reed (Sale Sharks), Tom Seabrook (Gloucester), Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints), Will Simonds (Wasps), Manu Vunipola (Saracens), Gus Warr (Sale Sharks), Kieran Wilkinson (Sale Sharks).

Street's a tighthead and tbh I can't see Tuima coming straight in at lock. At 124kg he's barely a lineout option for a men's team; I can't see an U20s side getting him in the air too easily. I imagine he'll be in the back row or not at all, you need 2nd Rowers playing 2nd row.

Heyes will be tighthead and I reckon James will be fullback with Lawrence as outside centre. Wouldn't surprise me if hardwick started at 10 or 12. Reed will get some decent game time as well. Encouraging squad.

 

[Scotty]

Street's a tighthead and tbh I can't see Tuima coming straight in at lock. At 124kg he's barely a lineout option for a men's team; I can't see an U20s side getting him in the air too easily. I imagine he'll be in the back row or not at all, you need 2nd Rowers playing 2nd row.

My bad, i did it all from memory rather than looking anything up and im sure ive seen Tuima at lock figured it would be sort of a will skelton thing, which is kind of what i always thought he could be.

 

[Nudger]

For me the main reason we had such a bad world cup was that hartley was band. which left us with youngs who could only throw to parling completely screwed our pack

 

[TRF_Olyy]

£350k for 33mins is nice work if you can get it
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/it-w...aying-just-33-minutes-for-worcester-warriors/

 

[Reiser99]

£350k for 33mins is nice work if you can get it
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/it-w...aying-just-33-minutes-for-worcester-warriors/

Great investment by Worcester...just when you thought the situation couldn't get any more ridiculous. He'll probably do his hamstring getting off the plane when he returns and just book another flight back.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

So Baxter has ruled himself out of the England job

 

[TRF_Olyy]

https://twitter.com/JoeMarler/status/1070424352628318210?s=19

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Might be reading too much into it but Baxter's comments to sky about but taking the England job seem to hint at a problem we may have hiring good coaches, the job is toxic as hell.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Even if there weren't the club vs country disconnect the press and the blazers are enough to put most off.