England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[Which Tyler]

Assuming everyone is fit, then...


RWC final team:
Genge; Hartley; Sinckler
Itoje; Launchbury
Underhill, Curry, BVunipola

Wigglesworth Ford
Farrell, Tuilagi
May, Daly, Brown

George, MVunipola, Williams, Lawes, Wilson
Youngs, Joseph, Watson


To see us through the 6N
Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Launchbury
Underhill, Curry, Wilson

Wigglesworth, Ford
Farrell, Tuilagi
May, Cokanasiga, Watson

Moon, Taylor/LCD, Williams, Kruis/Lawes, BVunipola
???, Joseph, Daly


RWC 31-man squad:
LHP: Genge, MVunipola, Moon
HK : Hartley, George, LCD/Taylor
THP: Sinckler, Williams, Cole
LCK: Itoje, Launchbury, Lawes, Kruis
FLK: Curry, Underhill, Robshaw
N8 : BVunipola, Wilson
18
SH: Wigglesworth, Youngs, ???
FH: Ford, Farrell
CE: Tuilagi, Joseph, Slade
WG: May, Cokanasiga, Daly
FB: Brown, Watson
13


It's depressing, but Wiggles has earned his way up to first choice starter. Wilson and Cokanasiga needs game time, even if I wouldn't start them in our best team right now. Equally, Watson and Daly need more international minutes at FB if they're to be considered options there. Moon has done well, and needs more gametime if he's to go to the RWC, even though he'd go as 3rd choice - same principal for LCD/Taylor, and XXX at SH. Someone has to be 3rd choice, and that person can't really afford to be essentially a debutant in Japan

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't see what's so depressing about playing Wigglesworth - he does the basics very very well.

Though I've always been of the opinion the basics are far more important than anything else (hence liking old school tightheads, snaffling opensides etc.)

Pair him with a Ford/Farrell 10/12 and his lack of a real threatening sniping game is more than equalled out by such attacking threat in the backline getting quality ball.
Plus his box kicking is so much better than any other viable option (imo Spencer is the next best box kicker in England).

 

[MarkyH]

It's not like Wigglesworth is going to lose any pace between now and then. He's safe, but has enough quality for the WC. That's all. Lets worry about SH in the 2020 6N.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't see what's so depressing about playing Wigglesworth - he does the basics very very well.

Though I've always been of the opinion the basics are far more important than anything else (hence liking old school tightheads, snaffling opensides etc.)

Pair him with a Ford/Farrell 10/12 and his lack of a real threatening sniping game is more than equalled out by such attacking threat in the backline getting quality ball.

He's not as good a sniper as Youngs or Care but he runs quality support lines and is surprisingly fast. With linebreakers like Tuilagi and Cokonasiga his support lines will be a serious attacking threat.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't see what's so depressing about playing Wigglesworth - he does the basics very very well.

Though I've always been of the opinion the basics are far more important than anything else (hence liking old school tightheads, snaffling opensides etc.)

Pair him with a Ford/Farrell 10/12 and his lack of a real threatening sniping game is more than equalled out by such attacking threat in the backline getting quality ball.
Plus his box kicking is so much better than any other viable option (imo Spencer is the next best box kicker in England).

As a PS to this: I'm not exactly going to be gutted if we give Robson every single game until the world cup.
Wigglesworth is experienced enough that he could not play for England again until the world cup opener and still slot in seamlessly.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So after quite a positive autum I'm still shocked at our lack of choice at 12.

T'eo and Farrell can't be what we take to the World Cup. If Farrell ends up as our first choice 10 then we need another in a T'eo style (so we don't have to change our game plan).

In the 6 nations we really need to try J Williams and another....whoever else that might be.

Burrell is not international quality. Francis doesn't offer enough of a threat. Loz didn't look that good there and probably won't see any game time there. I can't think of anyone else whose been in or around the squad at 12.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

In the 6 nations we really need to try J Williams and another....whoever else that might be.

Mills probably the best English 12 atm.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Mills probably the best English 12 atm.

I've been saying this for most of the season. I thought he looked great a few years ago but injuries have not been kind to him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've been saying this for most of the season. I thought he looked great a few years ago but injuries have not been kind to him.

Aye, he looked excellent in his last season at Gloucester then sort of faded away with a series of injuries.
Flying atm - kind of ironic that he's in Te'os shirt. They're gonna have to put Te'o at 13 or something (God knows they need to play him to make the most of the ridiculous salary he's on for the amount of minutes he actually plays for his club).

 

[Reiser99]

Unless Te'o has a fantastic time from now on he should just focus on his club form because he hasn't justified his inclusion this Autumn.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Unless Te'o has a fantastic time from now on he should just focus on his club form because he hasn't justified his inclusion this Autumn.

I think he played pants...but with our 10, 12, 13 combo I think we are looking at

10 Farrell
12 T'eo
13 JJ/ Daly/ Slade

Or

10 Ford
12 Farrell
13 Manu

Each option gives us a ball carrier in the midfield but each carry a sick note player. If neither are fit for the WC then we really will struggle. People have been saying for a long time we need more power in the centres.

 

[Nudger]

If fit Farrell teo manu
Against the Irish
Cant wait lol
Bring it on

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Loz more likely to go to Japan now he's putting in a good showing on the wing as well? Maybe a bit premature after an hour but it's a big plus in eddies mind it seems?
Having a player to cover 10,12,13,14 could be great for the wider squad?

 

[chippieolamus]

He played 15 against Scarlets last year and maybe in a couple of other games too. IIRC he played very well v Scarlets

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Imagine if Burgess had been managed properly; he could probably have been a world class 12 for England by now.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So it looks like we're going to get a bit more dynamism and ball carrying from our front row.

It also looks like we might be getting a balanced, faster, back row that's better at the breakdown.

So where does that leave our locks? If they're not having to cover weaknesses elsewhere does that affect our selection in the row? I doubt Jones will go outside the established 4, although there's an argument that he should. Fitness permitting...

I'd always go with Kruis. He's our top line out operator, and while he doesn't do the spectacular as much as the others, he does the basics well and just seems to bring solidity in the close exchanges. Little bit old school in some respects, but that's not a bad thing in the row.

I'd be inclined to pair him with Launch. Bit heavier duty and stronger. Again understated but has huge involvement and is generally error free.

That means Lawes or Itoje to bench. Very good options who can both cover 6, but 4 into 2 doesn't go.

 

[Reiser99]

So it looks like we're going to get a bit more dynamism and ball carrying from our front row.

It also looks like we might be getting a balanced, faster, back row that's better at the breakdown.

So where does that leave our locks? If they're not having to cover weaknesses elsewhere does that affect our selection in the row? I doubt Jones will go outside the established 4, although there's an argument that he should. Fitness permitting...

I'd always go with Kruis. He's our top line out operator, and while he doesn't do the spectacular as much as the others, he does the basics well and just seems to bring solidity in the close exchanges. Little bit old school in some respects, but that's not a bad thing in the row.

I'd be inclined to pair him with Launch. Bit heavier duty and stronger. Again understated but has huge involvement and is generally error free.

That means Lawes or Itoje to bench. Very good options who can both cover 6, but 4 into 2 doesn't go.

As I said previously I honestly think the locks depend on the opponents. If the opposition has a strong lineout then you pick your strongest lineout operators. If not you have more flexibility and can play Launch, lawes etc who will hit big and run hard. Itoje is probably closest to all round and I think if he can cut the silly penalties and get a bit better at the lineout he would be world class.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Krutoje with Launch on the bench, for me - though any combo of the three is gonna be good.
I like Lawes, but he's in the squad rather than the 23 for me.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

My attempt at a 1st XV with everyone available; haven't put a ton of thought into it though so I'm sure my mind can be changed on a few selections:
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Maro Itoje
6. Sam Underhill
7. Tom Curry
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Richard Wigglesworth
10. George Ford
11. Joe Cokonasiga
12. Owen Farrell
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Jonny May
15. Mike Brown

16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Harry Williams
19. Courtney Lawes
20. Mark Wilson
21. Ben Youngs
22. Jonathan Joseph
23. Elliot Daly/Anthony Watson

 

[Reiser99]

My attempt at a 1st XV with everyone available; haven't put a ton of thought into it though so I'm sure my mind can be changed on a few selections:
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Maro Itoje
6. Sam Underhill
7. Tom Curry
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Richard Wigglesworth
10. George Ford
11. Joe Cokonasiga
12. Owen Farrell
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Jonny May
15. Mike Brown

16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Harry Williams
19. Courtney Lawes
20. Mark Wilson
21. Ben Youngs
22. Jonathan Joseph
23. Elliot Daly/Anthony Watson

I know the feeling at the moment there are very few places with a clear front runner and the few players who are probably definite can play in multiple positions. I think May is the only certainty in one position. Purely personal, but with Manu's injuries and thinking about impact I would start JJ. I think you want JJ to keep the defence tight at the start and Manu to benefit from the tired open play later. I don't think JJ is a good impact sub, but more of a starter.