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England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

MikeTheNative said:
Every nation is/has been the same, picking the 'tried and tested' over the young up coming talent. You have Lydiate,/Roberts for Wales, Rob Kearney for Ireland, Mumm for Aus etc. Yes Wade should have got a chance but again it's the same for other countries, where players seem to be in great regional/club form but never got a chance.
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Is it though...I really don't recall that many Welsh, Irish or Scottish players that weren't given at least a half decent crack at international honours during their career, perhaps you could enlighten me?

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about young players vs experienced players as that's a different question. I'm talking about senior players (let's say 25-26yo+ as an arbitrary measure) that have been shunned from the national set-up despite lighting up the league at club level).
 
Not sure you can say shane Williams would never have gotten picked for England when we picked Billy whizz in the same era (Shane debuted for Wales a year before Robbo did for England)
 
Xsypher said:
Is it though...I really don't recall that many Welsh, Irish or Scottish players that weren't given at least a half decent crack at international honours during their career, perhaps you could enlighten me?

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about young players vs experienced players as that's a different question. I'm talking about senior (let's say 25-26yo+ as an arbitrary measure) that have been shunned from the national set-up despite lighting up the league at club level).
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From a Wales point of view, Dan Evans consistently one of the best FB in Wales never added to his two caps that he got when he was 20. James Davies was one of the best 7s in the PRO15 and finally only got his chance this year at 27 and that was mainly down to injuries. (He only has 3 caps).
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Not sure you can say shane Williams would never have gotten picked for England when we picked Billy whizz in the same era (Shane debuted for Wales a year before Robbo did for England)
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Maybe, but Robinson was an established league international that made the switch to union under the proviso of getting capped. Williams was shifty hobbit from the valleys that was told he was told he was too small to play scrum half! And that's in non-discriminatory Wales of all places! Also, personally speaking I really don't think he would have been capped by England in that era. Happy to remove him for consistency though.
 
MikeTheNative said:
From a Wales point of view, Dan Evans consistently one of the best FB in Wales never added to his two caps that he got when he was 20. James Davies was one of the best 7s in the PRO15 and finally only got his chance this year at 27 and that was mainly down to injuries. (He only has 3 caps).
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I don't think it's an age issue, in England we've never known what to do with talented but maybe flawed player's, we've picked steady by the book players over maverick's for years, bemoaning the fact that said player is lazy or can't defend etc while ignoring the fact that said player can do things that most can't, going back to Wade one of the most consistent winger's to play in the prem, got the feet as well as the pace and more intelligent than a lot of 'greyhound' wingers with the ability to more than simply run fast in straight lines however he has/had defensive issue's so he's vetoed...
 
Who are you dropping for Wade?
May?
Daly?
Nowell?

No thanks.

More excited by Cokanasiga and Earle from the youngsters, than wade, as well.

We've got a lot of good wingers, it shouldn't be a surprise that the one with clear flaws gets overlooked
 
ragerancher said:
Haskell, Wood and Robshaw, all now deemed average at best were all hailed when younger.
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Hask certainly was. Don't remember that for Robshaw at all and he won one cap at 23 and then had to wait 3 years for another, immediately becoming a fixture.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Who are you dropping for Wade?
May?
Daly?
Nowell?

No thanks.

More excited by Cokanasiga and Earle from the youngsters, than wade, as well.

We've got a lot of good wingers, it shouldn't be a surprise that the one with clear flaws gets overlooked
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I'm not dropping anyone for Wade, point being he's been around for years 2012/13 he wins players player of the year and young player of the year gets in the squad but blink and you'll miss his England career, deserved to at least have a descent shot and if he fail's he fail's, granted we've got good depth now and as I say I wouldn't swap him In for anyone, but surely if Marland Yarde can get a shot surely Wade deserved a look in at some point...
 
TRF_Olyy said:
All the posts on social media about Wade make it sound like he died.

Rightly or wrongly multiple coaches have decided he's not right for international.
And it's not like we've got a bunch of jobbers in front of him, British and Irish Lion Watson, British and Irish Lion Elliot Daly, British and Irish Lion Jack Nowell.
Plenty of potentially world class players will miss out on the opportunity to play internationally, it's not some giant travesty.
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I'd add from what I've seen he's been pretty poor for a year now. Has he even scored this season?
 
Lozowski ban extended, Cirpiani banned and yet none of the other infringements by non-English clubs punished, in particular CJ Stander walking away from what should have been a red.

Seems English teams get punished more off the field as well as on it... ******* disgrace. Really calls into question the impartiality of the board located in... France. How can the amount of **** other clubs be getting away with go unnoticed whilst we are getting penalised for everything under the sun and have done for a long time.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Who are you dropping for Wade?
May?
Daly?
Nowell?

No thanks.

More excited by Cokanasiga and Earle from the youngsters, than wade, as well.

We've got a lot of good wingers, it shouldn't be a surprise that the one with clear flaws gets overlooked
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100% agree. Although Earle isn't really that young at 24.

I agree that we've generally steered away from the more maverick players, but some players like Simpson-Daniel were ruled out as much by their injury proneness as their style of play.

I also think that Steffon Armitage and Abendanon got mythically better in their absence than they ever actually were in reality. Both are undoubtedly very good players, but not as good as they were made out to be. I think it's fair to say Cipriani is too good to be ignored now, but that wasn't the case when he was at the peak of his 'di**head' years in Melbourne etc.
 
BPM said:
100% agree. Although Earle isn't really that young at 24.

I agree that we've generally steered away from the more maverick players, but some players like Simpson-Daniel were ruled out as much by their injury proneness as their style of play.

I also think that Steffon Armitage and Abendanon got mythically better in their absence than they ever actually were in reality. Both are undoubtedly very good players, but not as good as they were made out to be. I think it's fair to say Cipriani is too good to be ignored now, but that wasn't the case when he was at the peak of his 'di**head' years in Melbourne etc.
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TFW 24 isn't really young anymore...
 
ratsapprentice said:
I don't think Wade's non-selection under Jones has really been that harsh - we have other players who's overall game has been better than his...

However.... there was a very long period under Lancaster, during which his exclusion was then, and is now, unforgivable.
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Yeah, not like Brown or Tuilagi played on the wing after his emergence.

An even in the recent era, you'd have thought that he'd have been a handy bench option against tired defences at least once.

Ship's sailed.
 
Still happened as part of the training camp and not directly as a result of rugby training. Therefore I'm counting that as the first of my 3 predicted non-rugby related injuries to happen during England training camps.
 
How can you count it as a training camp injury when it happened before the training camp?
 
Because he was fit enough to be there but then through the actions of the camp had to leave
 

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