England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[TRF_Olyy]

Ignoring that EJ is the coach so it'll never happen, I can't help but wonder how Kvesic would go at 6 for England.
He's been on incredible form this season and is doing a more than passable job at 8.
Kvesic, Curry, Binny would be sssiiiccckkk

 

[Reiser99]

I love your optimism...'ignoring EJ as coach'.

I've posted something similar 3 times now, but might as well repeat here. After such a poor showing in the Champion's cup, how will it affect the national side? It's clear that EJ will not deviate too much from his original plan and at European level, English rugby is performing atrociously...

Even if EJ does give in and makes changes, are English players good enough?

 

[TommiG88]

I love your optimism...'ignoring EJ as coach'.

I've posted something similar 3 times now, but might as well repeat here. After such a poor showing in the Champion's cup, how will it affect the national side? It's clear that EJ will not deviate too much from his original plan and at European level, English rugby is performing atrociously...

Even if EJ does give in and makes changes, are English players good enough?

There's many issues in the English game at the moment. For it being a rich league, even our top teams struggle with the depths of squads. Look at the Leinster line up on Friday, that would smash any salary cap if they were a premiership side. Irish rugby is currently on top of a crest at the moment, and Munster and Leinster pretty much have the Irish team between their 2 squads whilst ours is spread over 6 or more sides.

Then comes the coaching. Leicester have a good team, but are in transition. I think Dai Young is an over rated Coach / DoR as they have the same problems year after year with some exceptional talent in their side. Remind me of Bath a few years ago.

Bath, they should be doing a lot better with the players they have, but injuries and Blackadder are holding them back.

Exeter and Saracens are the only 2 who have built good squads and are coached well. Exeter will feel a tad hard done by yesterday, but they could still get through their group. I really feel they miss Simmonds though with his explosive pace and darting runs.

Will be interesting to see how Gloucester do today. I have them as a dark horse to make the knock outs.

I think the coaching is a huge part of it. Look at Edinburgh for example, they have been awful for a number of years, Cockers goes up there and turns them around. Maybe it went a bit stale at Leicester, but when he was in charge I always knew Saints would struggle against his side.

Individually though, I think there have been some good performances by English players. Kvesic, Slade, Attwood, Thomas and even in his cameo, Underhill.

Only caught glimpses of the Leicester game, but Tuilagi looked strong and the youngster on the wing looks impressive.

Maybe I'm putting too much of a positive spin on things.

 

[higgik]

Watching Kvesic yesterday, he should be the 7, looked very much in a McCall role to me, even though playing with 8 on back.
Billy provides the carrying threat, so need a continuity style player in the wider channels, Simmonds would have been nailed on, but now probably Robshaw.

 

[stus768]

Does kvesic jump at all?

 

[Nudger]

I love your optimism...'ignoring EJ as coach'.

I've posted something similar 3 times now, but might as well repeat here. After such a poor showing in the Champion's cup, how will it affect the national side? It's clear that EJ will not deviate too much from his original plan and at European level, English rugby is performing atrociously...

Even if EJ does give in and makes changes, are English players good enough?

Good enough to win the world cup beat anyone on a good day possibly

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Does kvesic jump at all?

Aye, Graham kitchener should play 6 for England instead.

People's obsession with having 5 lineout jumpers in the pack is ridiculous.

 

[stus768]

Aye, Graham kitchener should play 6 for England instead.

People's obsession with having 5 lineout jumpers in the pack is ridiculous.

Just asking! Wasn't saying he had to to be in!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just asking! Wasn't saying he had to to be in!

Haha, apologies.
It's a real bug bear of mine when people discount flankers because they're not lineout specialists.
That should be a bonus not a prerequisite

 

[Reiser99]

Good enough to win the world cup beat anyone on a good day possibly

Well that statement is always misleading as if England have a good day and the other team doesn't then yeah of course. How would England at their best compare to other teams at their best, that's the question and we have slipped down that list over the last 2 years.

 

[Jimbo]

I believe a good full back should make you feel confident in their defence, positioning and intelligence. Anything else is a bonus strength. For me this is why Brown continues to be picked.
However the reason I write this is because Jonah Holmes makes me feel this way in each game I have seen him.
Is he any where near an England selection?

Good point well put, I do like the look of Woodard although his kick might be a little sub par probably his weakest area.

 

[Jimbo]

There's many issues in the English game at the moment. For it being a rich league, even our top teams struggle with the depths of squads. Look at the Leinster line up on Friday, that would smash any salary cap if they were a premiership side. Irish rugby is currently on top of a crest at the moment, and Munster and Leinster pretty much have the Irish team between their 2 squads whilst ours is spread over 6 or more sides.

Then comes the coaching. Leicester have a good team, but are in transition. I think Dai Young is an over rated Coach / DoR as they have the same problems year after year with some exceptional talent in their side. Remind me of Bath a few years ago.

Bath, they should be doing a lot better with the players they have, but injuries and Blackadder are holding them back.

Exeter and Saracens are the only 2 who have built good squads and are coached well. Exeter will feel a tad hard done by yesterday, but they could still get through their group. I really feel they miss Simmonds though with his explosive pace and darting runs.

Will be interesting to see how Gloucester do today. I have them as a dark horse to make the knock outs.

I think the coaching is a huge part of it. Look at Edinburgh for example, they have been awful for a number of years, Cockers goes up there and turns them around. Maybe it went a bit stale at Leicester, but when he was in charge I always knew Saints would struggle against his side.

Individually though, I think there have been some good performances by English players. Kvesic, Slade, Attwood, Thomas and even in his cameo, Underhill.

Only caught glimpses of the Leicester game, but Tuilagi looked strong and the youngster on the wing looks impressive.

Maybe I'm putting too much of a positive spin on things.

Not sure how you have arrived at the conclusion Dai is over rated, granted Wasps seem unable to reach that next level in the premiership but they have consistantly been Amongst the top of the league, provided one of the most entertaining finals I can recall loosing last minute to Execter, sure they have defensive lapses that is so frustrating but some things are outside of the coaches hands missing tackles etc, I'm not saying he's the best coach around and there aren't improvements he could make but I would genuinely say he's one of the best coaches in the prem.

 

[NickBD]

Makos injury looked quite bad, wonder if Marler can delay his retirement by a few weeks.

Be interested to see how they deal with 8 if Billy is out again, no Billy no Simmonds and no Hughes. Be nice to see Morgan have a go but EJ will probably go for Haskell or try Shields.

Farrell took a knock with George and Itoje both broke there nose.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Haha, apologies.
It's a real bug bear of mine when people discount flankers because they're not lineout specialists.
That should be a bonus not a prerequisite

But an important bonus imo. The Pooper backrow shows how it can limit options when backrow is chosen just with the breakdown in mind, especially v sides who have more than 3 lineout targets. The ABs exposed their line out.

I don't think Maro or Lawes are the solution at 6, which is why I think EJ was keen to get Shields involved in time for the RWC so he can be the big bruiser at 6 plus also a legitimate third lineout jumper.

Makos injury looked quite bad, wonder if Marler can delay his retirement by a few weeks.

Be interested to see how they deal with 8 if Billy is out again, no Billy no Simmonds and no Hughes. Be nice to see Morgan have a go but EJ will probably go for Haskell or try Shields.

Farrell took a knock with George and Itoje both broke there nose.

Bloody hell that sounds brutal. Marler burnt his bridges with his comments of deliberately getting banned to get out of England duty, so doubt there is anyway back for him.

 

[Scotty]

Makos injury looked quite bad, wonder if Marler can delay his retirement by a few weeks.

Be interested to see how they deal with 8 if Billy is out again, no Billy no Simmonds and no Hughes. Be nice to see Morgan have a go but EJ will probably go for Haskell or try Shields.

Farrell took a knock with George and Itoje both broke there nose.

Dont want marler back,not because i dont want to see him play but because he isnt going to play WC and has made his choice. We currently have the choice of Hepburn, VRR or???

No George and Itoje would be bad with Launch and Lawes out aswell.

 

[MarkyH]

Interesting weekend. Hopefully some of the injuries aren't long term, or as bad as feared.

Not a vintage weekend for English clubs, but as Tommi points out above there was some good individual performances for English players. Kvesic, Slade, Morgan, Cips. Williams looked good for Exeter. Johnny Williams again played well for Newcastle. Tuilagi scoring a try with a smashing run in the last throws of the game show he still has a bit of pace, strength as more importantly he's fit.

Again, probably a positive spin on the weekends games but meh! It's not bad for England at all.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Marler's retired, we move on. Hepburn's good, but I'd like to see VRR given a shot - 125 kg prop of Georgian origins, what's not to like?

If Binny's out, Morgan would be a great shout but I'd love to see Mercer given his head. Brings something a bit different.

How about this for an athletic, skilful back row and a big powerful front 5 for them to play off?

VRR, Hartley, Williams, Kruis, Attwood, Underhill, Curry, Mercer.

 

[Nudger]

Well that statement is always misleading as if England have a good day and the other team doesn't then yeah of course. How would England at their best compare to other teams at their best, that's the question and we have slipped down that list over the last 2 years.

 

[Nudger]

That should have read not good enough
But can beat anyone on their day

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

A bit OT, but worth noting that Brown did the same thing as Binny last week against Agen. Ref awarded the try, but he went and told him he nocked it on. Just to all of those who maintain he is a ****...