England Post-WC discussion

[Chistera]

The irony being they're both League converts too

My, am I ignorant.
He still got picked over Slade, Twelvetrees and Daly I guess. All of them would have done more than make a few defensive hits a game, it's good for TV replays but isn't enough from a modern center.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, i get what you mean - the other two have "paid their dues" at their clubs before getting a shot with England - Burgess was rushed straight in on the hope he'd rise to the occasion.
I'd say he did - he played his best (centre) rugby, however his best (so far) is nowhere near what people want/expect from him/his top end.

 

[Peat]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Armitage. Not as in will he play from France - no, he shouldn't, everyone who keeps talking about it should be kneecapped - but whether a new coach would try to coax him home. I don't think Lancaster was interested, but a new man might be.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Armitage. Not as in will he play from France - no, he shouldn't, everyone who keeps talking about it should be kneecapped - but whether a new coach would try to coax him home. I don't think Lancaster was interested, but a new man might be.

Lancaster couldn't be interests as it shows robshaw up as a poor 7 and I don't think robshaw would make a good 6 anymore!

Not a strong enough carrier or line out option

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

6N starting XV

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Attwood
Launchbury
Robshaw
Kvesic
Morgan
Youngs
Ford
Roko
Tuilagi
JJ
May
Watson

Bench: Auterac, George, Brookes, Itoje, B Vunipola, Care, Slade, Nowell

I think our scrum problems originated with Youngs so Hartley gets an interim recall. The 2nd row gets beefed up, the back row gets some balance and Robshaw gets the chance to have a crack at 6, his real position. He also gets stripped of the captaincy which goes to Launch for the short term.

Behind, there's more pace, power and creativity with lots of options for switching positions without causing total carnage. The forwards bench is introducing young exciting talent that will feature heavily in Japan 2019.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Armitage. Not as in will he play from France - no, he shouldn't, everyone who keeps talking about it should be kneecapped - but whether a new coach would try to coax him home. I don't think Lancaster was interested, but a new man might be.

+1

I don't know that he didn't try to coax Armitage - he just didn't flat out guarantee him a starting position.

 

[Patchey]

I honestly don't think we'll see wholesale changes in the 6N. Assuming everyone is fit, I can think of a handful of players that a new coach might drop but not a whole swathe of them like in 2011/12.

Obviously we may. It even have a new coach...

Manu will be back and may well get tried out at 12 if we've yet to find a centre. I'd say Slade will have a chance to stake a claim there as well.

Barritt out and Burgess either out or to the forwards.

Wigglesworth and Easter out. Age.

Webber maybe out? Lot of competition. Wilson may well disappear (sigh).

One of Robshaw or Wood will go. I think, whatever people's view on him as a player, Chris will probably be dropped as the previous, failed skipper.

Farrell and Brown are the only players to emerge from this mess with serious credit in the bank. Watson and B Youngs too. Hard to tell with JJ.

Most 'exciting' (hard to be excited right now tbh) about the post World Cup period is that we might now see some serious competition for places in the back row.

Potential 6N team:

Marler, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood, Kvesic, Morgan; Youngs, Farrell, Watson, Manu/Slade, JJ, May, Brown.

Now saying that is 100% the team if pick. But I think that's a decent guess at what a relatively cautious new coach would pick.

Wider squad needs to give chances to Ewers, Itoje, Daly, Simpson or Robson, Roko and maybe another 10. No sure Cips is an investment in the future but who else is ready?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Farrell and Brown are the only players to emerge from this mess with serious credit in the bank. Watson and B Youngs too. Hard to tell with JJ.

You think Farrell came out of this with "serious credit in the bank", yet you're unsure about JJ?

 

[ncurd]

You think Farrell came out of this with "serious credit in the bank", yet you're unsure about JJ?

Think we'll be having the Ford/Farrell debate in the entire lead up to the 6 nations the important thing really is to select one and stick with it. I'm still not convinced Farrell was the choice all along to change that just just before the Wales match still strikes as stupid beyond belief regardless of which side of the debate you were on.

- - - Updated - - -

JJ should be nailed on starter however.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

George for me over Hartley (whose qualities have been exaggerate since the World Cup has began IMO)

 

[Patchey]

You think Farrell came out of this with "serious credit in the bank", yet you're unsure about JJ?

Ahaha yeah maybe I should have explained that more!

Farrell was impressive off the bench against Fiji, our best player against Wales (and had we not ballsed it up, would have got the credit for winning us the match in the same way Biggar did for Wales) and one of the few guys who performed last night. We showed Ford up tbh, although how much that had to do with Ford also being terrible I'm not sure.

JJ has only had two games, one of them with a decent chunk of time on the wing. He's been good but IIRC nothing spectacular.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Faz has enhanced his reputation IMO, JJ has done nothing to harm his.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think
Youngs
Cole
Lawes
Need a year off from England.

My 6N's 23
1) Vunipola
2) George
3) Brookes
4) Launchbury
5) Attwood
6) Ewers
7) Kvesic
8) Morgan
9) Simpson
10) Cips
11) May
12) Eastmond
13) Joseph
14) Watson
15) Pennell

16) Cowan-Dickie/Heywood
17) Waller/Auterac
18) Thomas
19) Slater
20) Vunipola
21) Robson/Youngs
22) Ford/Slade
23) Nowell

Manu need to prove himself after injury for me now until he should be looked at from injury.

 

[Wendigo7]

you seeing the same game as me.

I thought Ford was fantastic in the second half last night and we improved considerably.

I do wonder with both halfies how much of that is on Barritt being 12 though.

 

[ncurd]

Did Ford do himself any harm last night? Thought he came on and gave the attack added impetus that meant we could belive we could back in it. Can't really blame Farrell for the yellow however thought it was a stupid decision. Burgess should have probably got one for the high tackle. However it's not the first time Farrell been on that kind of line in a big match he did it in the prem final as well and adjudged afterwards to have deserved a yellow. I just worry about that element of his game a little.

 

[Patchey]

you seeing the same game as me.

I thought Ford was fantastic in the second half last night and we improved considerably.

I do wonder with both halfies how much of that is on Barritt being 12 though.

Well true, the centres being a mess / Faz playing at 12 has made it bit weird.

 

[ncurd]

TBH I know to mooted alot I'm not convinced Ford 10/Farrell 12 is terrible plan going forward and I'm amazed the first real time we gave to it was last night. Worked for them at age grade and I don't see what Barritt brings over Farrell in that position.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Have people forgot about Slade as well.

Will he be a 10 or a center?

 

[Patchey]

TBH I know to mooted alot I'm not convinced Ford 10/Farrell 12 is terrible plan going forward and I'm amazed the first real time we gave to it was last night. Worked for them at age grade and I don't see what Barritt brings over Farrell in that position.

Difference is that at age grade they had a massive platform from the pack though. Something that doesn't happen that much in senior rugby and which this England squad certainly isn't going to provide regularly.

 

[McTallshort]

Think we'll be having the Ford/Farrell debate in the entire lead up to the 6 nations the important thing really is to select one and stick with it. I'm still not convinced Farrell was the choice all along to change that just just before the Wales match still strikes as stupid beyond belief regardless of which side of the debate you were on.

- - - Updated - - -

JJ should be nailed on starter however.

England are a more threatening side with Ford at 10, that is obvious to everyone apart from Andy Farrell. Our backline against Fiji was the best of the 3 games even with BB a back line of Ford, Burrell and JJ would have been better but never mind. When JJ got injured Slade should have been a straightforward replacement but for some reason the England management don't trust Ford in the big games but trust a guy who's hardly played and BB out of position. It's so stupid it's beyond a joke. Who was 10 when we played so well in Cardiff this year? Was he trusted then?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Have people forgot about Slade as well.

Will he be a 10 or a center?

He's a 10.