England Post-WC discussion

[ncurd]

If we are knocked out tomorrow who do you guys want to

A. See in charge of the team
B. Who is captain
C. Who starts in the first 6N game

Too early for that just yet I know we've been speculating but I don't want to completely rebuild the side in my head until I have to speak to me on Sunday

 

[Geordie]

If we are knocked out tomorrow who do you guys want to

A. See in charge of the team
B. Who is captain
C. Who starts in the first 6N game

Probably a bit early to say Maverick.

Need to see who is playing well in the premiership. I don't think a new coach would change the team massively anyway...maybe just shake it up abit and sort out the balance of the pack abit.

The main point is the new coach would have a wealth of JWC winners coming through to intergrate in to the side.

Just some of the players worth looking at... Clifford, Hill, Slade, Ewers, Itoje, Scott Wilson, Tom Stephenson, Auterac etc etc

The spine of the team is good and whilst they will all be on a warning to buck their ideas up will be given the chance to continue...just needs some steel around it.

I'm sure I have missed loads out aswell....

1 Marler - Needs to start sand bring his carrying game to the fore MUCH more.
2 ?? LCD IF he can sort his throwing out. Or Hartley till he does sort it out. Maybe Jamie George
3 Cole - Will definitely be challenged this season
4 Lawes - Think he needs to up his game...his place should be challenged. Itoje / Slater may do that.
5 Launchbury - Could be world class.
6 ? Id love to see Ewers there. But Maybe Burgess will challenge. Consider moving Robshaw to 6 but remove captaincy
7 ? Id Love to see Kvesic given a run out. Clifford could get a game
8 Billy / Ben - Two class No.8's

9 Ben Youngs / Danny Care
10 Ford, Slade, Farrell, Cipriani - We're fine at 10
12 Hill / Stephenson
13 Joseph - WIll Tuilagi be in England. Will he be fit, will he be in France.
Wings - May, Watson, Nowell, Wade, Kibirige, Lewington etc etc - Think we're good with wingers
15 - Brown

If you add players like Itoje, Clifford, Kvesic, Hartley, Maybe Ed Slater and these are all captains aswell.

So those staying for the moment but many could be replaced:

1 Marler
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 **
5 Launchbury
6 **
7 **
8 Billy / Ben

9 Youngs / Care
10 Ford
11 May
12 **
13 Joseph
14 Watson
15 Brown

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Beamount actually would be a great choice. Is he also a 6 ? Because he covers 4/8 then he can be the perfect 19 or 20.

How many fathers and sons have played for England? I can only think of Youngs but there must be loads more.

 

[Peat]

When you have Parling, Lawes, Robshaw and Wood, you have a lot of graft and workrate...but no game changers. Marler and Cole are increasingly becoming that in my opinion as well.

I want to see a few more MIke browns...ie the aggression. I want to see some real crushing power. I want to see players who can change things with some magic or a brute tackle or carry.....

We don't currently have a pack that has players that can do that...but I personally think we DO have the players outside the squad who can come in.

I don't think you're going to see too much argument with that. Graft's great but it would be nice to see some impact, other than "Don't give our back three any space".

Speaking of Parling, and with Maverick's post in mind, I'm going to tout him as next England captain. He wouldn't be a long term thing, but assuming they give the role to someone other than Robshaw, I think he's the best leader who'd definitely be worth his place in the team - not a nailed on starter, but a good international 5. I'm anticipating a bit of disagreement with that, as I get the feeling that a) he's old and people want to start building for 2019 right away and b) people want players with more impact.

But I think the best way to start building for 2019 is with some wins (and besides, he could make it yet) so it should be the strongest team (and lets be honest, any coach will desperately want a good tournament for his job's sake), and I think we'll still need some graft and intelligence in the pack.

And who else is there? I know there's a fair few guys who've been club captains in or around the squad, but who among them is a) guaranteed a place b) not going to make people roll around helplessly in laughter? I mean, Haskell as England captain, no thanks...

Tbh I reckon Robshaw will captain England again, and possibly even stay captain. It's a very slim field until some youngsters grow up.

 

[TheSaffycen]

The current pack isn't a mobile one, or at least not the most mobile one. It doesn't have Launchbury and Robshaw and Wood are by no means mobile. I'm not sure what you call the current pack really.

A workhorse pack. Which seems like one of the worst templates to work with but there you go.

 

[TheSaffycen]

If we are knocked out tomorrow who do you guys want to

A. See in charge of the team
B. Who is captain
C. Who starts in the first 6N game

A. Baxter
B. Robshaw. I still like the guy and think he's a good player, also there isn't anyone who can immediately just step up and take the role. Possible other choices are Woods, Joseph ? I have no real idea. 2019 it almost certainly will be Itoje, Slater could come in and take it now possibly.
C. Based on this years form combined with not making 23 changes in one go.
1) Mullan 2)George 3)Cole 4)Launchbury 5)Attwood 6)Robshaw(C) 7)Kvesic 8)Vunipola
9)Youngs 10)Ford/Farrell 11)May 12)Devoto/Tuilagi 13)Joseph 14)Watson 15)Brown
16)Youngs 17)Vunipola 18)Thomas 19)Slater 20)Morgan/Ewers 21)Care 22)Slade 23)Wade

More changes then I would realistically want. 3 starters with Mullan/Kvesic/Devoto all the others I think have played for the full team recently. On the bench you have a great front row in the loose, power in back 5 with Slater and Morgan/Ewers. Wade I have no idea if he will be good enough at intl' level but I should know by now not assume, so I would have to have him. In the future squads have Robson/Ewers/Itoje playing more.

 

[j'nuh]

On the one hand, I don't think they're good enough, so clearly we need a lot, right? On the other, I don't want to do another total restart, because that team won't be good enough in four years time either. It would be madness to chuck away all the experience we're getting from this.

To be honest, I don't see us needing to make that much change. We need to do a Cheika/Schmidt job: keep most of the players, tinker around the edges, improve our game plan. We have no worse a player base than Ireland/Australia IMO, we should be okay.

My provisional 34-man Six Nations squad for next year has a fairly familiar look:

1. Mako, Mullan, Marler
2. George, Youngs, LCD/Hartley
3. Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4. Launchbury, ? (Attwood/Parling/Kitchener/Symons/Beaumont/Kruis/Itoje)
5. Lawes, ?
6. Ewers, Itoje (or Itoje moves into second row and another 6 here)
7. Kvesic, Robshaw
8. Morgan, Vunipola
9. Youngs, Care, Simpson
10. Farrell, Cipriani/Ford
11. May
12. Tuilagi, Hill, ? (not sure who, perhaps Tom Marshall)
13. Joseph, Slade
14. Watson, Yarde/Roko
15. Brown, Nowell

 

[Maverick1987]

I seriously think we should put Itoje in as captain in the six nations . By the time the next World Cup comes around as long as he avoids injury he will have 50 odd caps and only be 24

 

[McTallshort]

I seriously think we should put Itoje in as captain in the six nations . By the time the next World Cup comes around as long as he avoids injury he will have 50 odd caps and only be 24

No, let him earn his place first.

 

[Maverick1987]

No, let him earn his place first.

He's earned a place imo due to how crap our 6s perform . I understand the captain part but he's the real deal and can be England captain for a decade

 

[McTallshort]

He's earned a place imo due to how crap our 6s perform . I understand the captain part but he's the real deal and can be England captain for a decade

He is still young and no doubt will dip in form at some point. Let him worry about his rugby for now.

 

[Peat]

He is still young and no doubt will dip in form at some point. Let him worry about his rugby for now.

This. No guarantee the dip in form won''t come at the 6N either.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Has to be parking captain. Good leader and vocal from everything I've seen and heard.

Mako
George
Brooke's/ Coke
Lauchberry/ Kitchener
Parking - captain
Robshaw - for the moment
Kvesic
Morgan
Youngs
Ford/ slade
May/ nowell
Still not sure to be honest
JJ
Watson
Brown

Then slowly bring in a few new players here and there. Only the ones with X factor though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Parking damn autocorrect I guess LoL

 

[Maverick1987]

This. No guarantee the dip in form won''t come at the 6N either.

Maybe but there's also as much chance that he's absolutely flying come the 6N

 

[Chistera]

Pick a second row as captain, Lawes or Parling, then have Itoje-the-destined-successor take up the armband.
Play the Bath backline, ditch Barritt and Burgess, select Slade and Cipriani.
If you really want to win, call up Steffon -he's the only way to immediate success. When you pick a rugby leaguer over Burrell or Eastmond, you can pick someone who simply plays across the Channel.
Maybe have a policy that only overseas players who have been voted Best European Player of Year in recent times can be called up?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When you pick a rugby leaguer over Burrell or Eastmond

The irony being they're both League converts too

 

[Peat]

Maybe but there's also as much chance that he's absolutely flying come the 6N

True. I'm certainly not discounting him as a potential starter. In particular, if he could stick his hand up as a pacy powerful 6 who's good in the lineout, that would be perfect.

 

[McTallshort]

Burrell?

 

[Rich Taff]

I'd like to see Robshaw at 6, and Armitage at 7, but the all powerful premiership rugby will never let that happen.
I definitely think Burgess has potential, and could even see him trying at 7, but doubt he would be able to learn the dark arts of the breakdown at this stage of his career. A Jamie Robertsesque role would probably suit him more, especially with the 'rush defence' that teams are employing nowadays, which are very similar to League defences.
England are spoilt for choice in the second row, and that actually appears to be a weakness at the moment, due to not being able to decide on the best combination.
Will be interesting to see where they go from here. They were better than us (Wales) for the majority of the game, and were by far the better of the three of us vs Fiji (only one to secure a bonus point).
I wouldn't go pressing the panic button yet, as there's definitely sparks of something good.
Next year or so is about catching those sparks and fanning them, instead of panicking and going back to square one.