[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[Patchey]

Just rewatching some of the NZ tests from last year. Convinced me that we really need to make sure our line out is on point.

You would've though that comprehensively outplaying both Wood and Haskell in the games he has played alongside them would have already done that...

Don't be naive!

 

[Crapspray]

Yet both Haskell and Wood play 7 for their clubs... don't see why it would then rule Matt out.

And Robshaw played with Wallace at 6 for Quins for two seasons.

 

[Peat]

While Rats is completely right that there is no reason Kvesic should be competing only with Robshaw, it does nevertheless seem to be how things are.

 

[goodNumber10]

Maybe they just don't rate him?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Maybe they just don't rate him?

Well he's no David Seymour!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You joke, but there's similarities. Seymour, for a good few years, outplayed every other 7 in the premiership, week in week out, but all he got out of it was to be an unused Saxons sub - pundits and players all said it was mental, I remember Sean Fitzpatrick saying that if he were any other nationality he'd have double digits of caps.

England don't want "traditional opensides", if they can help it. Kvesic's Worcester form, and the absence of some key players from the Argentina tour, got him a few caps, but I'd be surprised if he got more in the next year or two (unless there are similar circumstances again).

 

[goodNumber10]

exactly, people seem to think that post world cup Kvesic will somehow miraculously replace Robshaw. he's only 29, he's got at least another two international seasons in him, perhaps even 2019.

i just think kvesic isn't in their longterm plans...

 

[Wendigo7]

exactly, people seem to think that post world cup Kvesic will somehow miraculously replace Robshaw. he's only 29, he's got at least another two international seasons in him, perhaps even 2019.

i just think kvesic isn't in their longterm plans...

Yes.

I think Clark and Clifford are more obvious prospects but even then I don't think they are sold on many of the 7s going in general.

 

[Maverick1987]

exactly, people seem to think that post world cup Kvesic will somehow miraculously replace Robshaw. he's only 29, he's got at least another two international seasons in him, perhaps even 2019.

i just think kvesic isn't in their longterm plans...

I think Kvesic is in their long term plans . Robshaw is lancasters right hand man . When he goes Kvesic is a firm favourite to replace him if you ask me . I think we are looking at Itoje Kvesic and Vunipola/Hughes back row by 2019

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We could have an under 30 pack for 2019 looking like this:

1) Marler (29), 2) LCD (26), 3) Brookes (28)
4) Launchbury (28), 5) Kitchener (29)
6) Itojie (24), 7) Kvesic (27), 8) Vunipola (26)

TBH that could be an amazing pack with a great mix of Speed, Mobility, Strength and technique.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We could have an under 30 pack for 2019 looking like this:

1) Marler (29), 2) LCD (26), 3) Brookes (28)
4) Launchbury (28), 5) Kitchener (29)
6) Itojie (24), 7) Kvesic (27), 8) Vunipola (26)

TBH that could be an amazing pack with a great mix of Speed, Mobility, Strength and technique.

I like the look off that pack. With more senior players on the bench like

Youngs, corbiserio, Cole, lawes, wood/ robshaw/ Morgan you have a good mix.

I always look at young packs and feel like they need experience but Lancaster has done an amazing job for players like launch berry, marler etc so they will be experienced by 2019

 

[michaelbolton]

We could have an under 30 pack for 2019 looking like this:

1) Marler (29), 2) LCD (26), 3) Brookes (28)
4) Launchbury (28), 5) Kitchener (29)
6) Itojie (24), 7) Kvesic (27), 8) Vunipola (26)

TBH that could be an amazing pack with a great mix of Speed, Mobility, Strength and technique.

Back line should be just as good surely?? 9 Robson 10 Ford 11 Yarde 12 Slade 13 JJ 14 Nowell 15 Watson 21 Youngs 22 Farrell 23 Manu

9 was hardest position but still not bad at all

 

[Patchey]

The parallels between Seymour and Kvesic are quite strong actually, Olly is right.

I think the notion that he'll break through after the World Cup come from the hypothetical situation where, like post-2011, a number of players are let go to give younger talent a go. I'm not saying or hoping that Robshaw will be one of those, but I imagine Haskell at least will be.

Gives Kvesic more of a chance maybe?

And Robshaw played with Wallace at 6 for Quins for two seasons.

Dark times.

 

[j'nuh]

Kvesic's been unlucky in part because Robshaw has had very little time out over the last four years. If Robshaw does pick up an injury at some point, I think Kvesic will get a start or two. It'll then be up to him to make himself indispensable.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I would have thought Robshaw would sit out of the easier games, give someone else a chance to be captain and see what the backup is like. There really is no need for him to play those games as he has more game time already than anyone else.

 

[Wendigo7]

Kvesic's been unlucky in part because Robshaw has had very little time out over the last four years. If Robshaw does pick up an injury at some point, I think Kvesic will get a start or two. It'll then be up to him to make himself indispensable.

Nope.

I think he's quite a way down the pecking order.

Honestly if your to pick 6 and 7 now it's more in Lanny's mind:

6.
Wood
Haskell
Burgess
Itoje
Ewers

7.
Robshaw
Wood
Haskell
Clark
Kvesic

I can't see him getting picked for a very long time. That's not even being rude, it's just a bit easy to see Lanny's thinking because I don't think he will ever pick a traditional openside. There's too many holes in that type of players game to fit into lanny's game.

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What England need is a Marcell Coetzee.

We don't have one atm .

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Nope.

I think he's quite a way down the pecking order.

Honestly if your to pick 6 and 7 now it's more in Lanny's mind:

6.
Wood
Haskell
Burgess
Itoje
Ewers

7.
Robshaw
Wood
Haskell
Clark
Kvesic

I can't see him getting picked for a very long time. That's not even being rude, it's just a bit easy to see Lanny's thinking because I don't think he will ever pick a traditional openside. There's too many holes in that type of players game to fit into lanny's game.

- - - Updated - - -

What England need is a Marcell Coetzee.

We don't have one atm .

Can you clarify what a true open side is? As all those players in my mind are no called traditional open sides but that all have the characteristics of one

 

[Wendigo7]

Specifically breakdown operators and pilferers only. Also technically very astute around a maul generally and tend to have alot of ****le and spite. Chances are if they are round the breakdown in any form the ball will more than likely be turned over by them. They don't have much of a running game and are slightly limited in attack. Don't tackle massively but are looking for post tackle work.

We don't have a single Pocock style player, or more precisely a Brussouw.

I'd classify that as the true openside but I may get swatted back . Clark's fairly close.

 

[Peat]

I can't see him getting picked for a very long time. That's not even being rude, it's just a bit easy to see Lanny's thinking because I don't think he will ever pick a traditional openside. There's too many holes in that type of players game to fit into lanny's game.

As things stand, I think you're right; he's shouted about his need for a proper breakdown openside, but done nothing about it, and looked addicted to players big enough to play 6 on both flanks. He clearly rates Kvesic at least some, but as I've already said, I think he's too small for Lancaster to truly love him.

But - if we trust the idea that they've decided the side needs to be fitter and faster to keep up with the pace at which New Zealand can play the game - then Lancaster might need to change his game plan.

 

[TobesHodges]

I can see Burgess coming on the second half of the opening game. I can imagine Lancaster will have him under a microscope though.
If he plays well I think we will see more of him in the tournament, though if not, I can't see much of him after that game..

Honestly I think he is 2nd to wood, though if wood has an wiffy second match against Wales.. Well who knows for Slammin Sam..