[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[ratsapprentice]

I'd politely ask him to **** off.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd politely ask him to **** off.

Same

 

[chippieolamus]

I'd politely ask him to **** off.

Yup, as would I. But, realistically that won't happen.

 

[ratsapprentice]

You're asking what we'd do - I'd not select him, as I believe Lancaster has a responsibility to not do too.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I agree that Nathan Hughs is not English, and that the rules should not allow him to play for England - but, I think Lancaster's responsibility is to pick the best side available to him, not to make those judgements.

 

[91jmay]

How is Hughes less English than Vunipola? Who grew up in Wales and wasn't born here?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Billy went to School in England, came through a premiership academy and played for England u18 and u20.

Hughes came through the Auckland blues academy, captained the Fijiian equivalent of the Saxons and has lived here for about 2 years.

If you can't see the distinction, then I don't know what to say...

Also at this point Hughes is as elligible as any uncapped player anywhere to play for England - i.e. he isn't and only will be by virtue of having lived here for a couple of years.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How is Hughes less English than Vunipola? Who grew up in Wales and wasn't born here?

Binny also grew up in England, was schooled here, came through the Wasps academy, and played age grade for England.

Hughes was born and raised in Fiji, moved to NZ for school on a scholarship, went through the Auckland academy/age grade system, captained the Fiji 'A' side and then moved to here as a fully fledged player.

Interestingly enough he turned down an invitation to the New Zealand Rugby 7s trials to go and play for a Fiji invitational side, so represting Fiji was obviously a big thing for him - weird that he'd now turn his back on that and want to play for England.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Also at this point Hughes is as elligible as any uncapped player anywhere to play for England - i.e. he isn't and only will be by virtue of having lived here for a couple of years.

...as an adult. I don't believe you should be able to qualify by residency as an adult - by eighteen, I would consider someone's nationality to be established

 

[91jmay]

So age group international rugby is the qualifier then in your minds? Fair enough. Wouldn't pick Barritt either then?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So age group international rugby is the qualifier then in your minds? Fair enough. Wouldn't pick Barritt either then?

Originally probably not but he's been with the England squad long enough for it to not really be an issue any more. Just what legal option does Hughes actually have to play for England? Was his dad's uncle's mother's dad English or something? I thought residency was longer than 2 years and I thought playing for any other international team, even their "A" team, prevented playing for anyone else...

 

[ratsapprentice]

So age group international rugby is the qualifier then in your minds? Fair enough. Wouldn't pick Barritt either then?

I posted six factors that distinguish the two and you reduce it back down to one? <_<

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Barrit has been EQP since birth.

Hughes has no link to England by blood or anything - he's not qualified for another year yet, which is what makes his Fiji snub more annoying.
Turns down playing in the RWC for his homeland in favour of maybe making the England squad when he eventually qualifies.

 

[91jmay]

Barritt qualifies because his parents had Rhodesian passports, although grandparents are English. Mauritz Botha though? Not like we'd be breaking precedence for Hughes.

Would prefer he played for Fiji though admittedly.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Barritt qualifies for England by virtue of the fact he's had a UK passport since birth.
Mo Botha had lived here for over 5 years before he was capped.

Hughes is the first player who you could legitimately accuse England of poaching should he play for us, and I want no part of that.

 

[j'nuh]

Hate to be that guy, but I have no problem with it. Hate the game, not the player and all. We might not like the residency rules, but they are what they are, and as long as it is within the rules, we shouldn't let coaches be the arbiter of whether someone is "English enough". They have no moral responsibility over that kind of issue; it's for the IRB to think about.

From another POV, I don't begrudge a player wanting to play for 1. a competitive team, 2. a team where they don't have to pay for things as basic as travelling costs, and 3. a nation without a totally corrupt government.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Controversial opinion: Hughes isn't better than Vunipola/Morgan.

Considering the quality of our first/second choice, do we need him as third? When we've got Evans/Beaumont/Clifford?

 

[91jmay]

Shontayne Hape? Didn't poach him but was here 2 years before we picked him.

Vunipola, Hughes, Morgan I would rate them. I would rather him line up for Fiji or Samoa though.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Shontayne Hape? Didn't poach him but was here 2 years before we picked him.

Seven, actually.

- - - Updated - - -

Hate to be that guy, but I have no problem with it. Hate the game, not the player and all. We might not like the residency rules, but they are what they are, and as long as it is within the rules, we shouldn't let coaches be the arbiter of whether someone is "English enough". They have no moral responsibility over that kind of issue; it's for the IRB to think about.

And that's where we'll have to disagree.

I hold an individual responsible for own actions - Lancaster will go down severely in my reckoning if he selects him.

You can't just absolve people of any responsibility just because the situation allows for exploitation.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You can't just absolve people of any responsibility just because the situation allows for exploitation.

Exactly, see the bankers involved in the financial crisis.