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[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

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Daily Wail is saying Friday. Cut to 37 or 38 from 46, and confirms that Easter has rejoined the squad post-Denver. I wonder why they're unsure about the final number (that is, who's the player on the knife edge). Final cut to 31 is on the 31st of August, five days before the Ireland test.

It worries me that Clark is name-checked as "making a stong impression" in the article. Looks like Lancaster will choose a fourth 6.5 instead of the specialist (Kvesic).

Also, the article says "Rob Webber is destined to be his [Tom Youngs'] understudy, with Jamie George and Luke Cowan-Dickie vying for the final squad place". Which is as expected, but I hope to God he's recovered some form after last season. Not sure who I'd pick of the two youngsters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3183164/England-endured-brutal-World-Cup-training-camp-America-s-decision-time-Stuart-Lancaster-survive-chop.html


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It's all academic with Cipriani. I've already scheduled my dentist appointment for a few days after I've ground my teeth away seeing Goode picked ahead of him.

Why do you think Clark is a 6.5? He is an out and out 7 in his style of play, always has been. Saints used to play him at 6 and wood at 7 when in reality they were always playing the opposite role.
 
Why do you think Clark is a 6.5? He is an out and out 7 in his style of play, always has been. Saints used to play him at 6 and wood at 7 when in reality they were always playing the opposite role.

I hope you are right . Putting the Arm breaking incident aside he was huge for saints for most of last season . Just a seems to me that Kvesic will have more of an impact for us in the future and seems more reasonable to give him the experience of the camp
 
Quite remarkable that he can fill in at lock as well (badly) then. Suppose that's more to do with physique than playing style or ability.
 
Quite remarkable that he can fill in at lock as well (badly) then. Suppose that's more to do with physique than playing style or ability.

I think that might be been the saints lack of any fit locks that meant he ended up playing there. He was terrible there to be honest.

Maverick 1987 - I think kvesic might have a higher top than Clark as well. Clark is a very good player but not in my opinion that top end international we need in the 7 shirt for England.
 
I think that might be been the saints lack of any fit locks that meant he ended up playing there. He was terrible there to be honest.

Maverick 1987 - I think kvesic might have a higher top than Clark as well. Clark is a very good player but not in my opinion that top end international we need in the 7 shirt for England.

Kvesic (and Clark to a lesser extent) should have been capped by now. Kvesic should be on 10+, IMO.

EDIT: Because I'm thick... Kvesic should have been capped more...
 
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Why do you think Clark is a 6.5? He is an out and out 7 in his style of play, always has been. Saints used to play him at 6 and wood at 7 when in reality they were always playing the opposite role.

Whenever I've seen him he's always filled that 6.5 mould of doing everything a flanker does, a lot, but specialising in none of them. I've never seen him get over ball like McCaw. His link-play with backs isn't in the mould of a Hooper/Tipuric. He doesn't seem particularly quick. Nor is he a lineout option like Croft. He's strong in contact, but lacks the sheer size of a Ewers, Fearns, Alberts-type of blindside.

Basically, he's almost the same type of player as Wood and Robshaw. Haskell being a slightly bulkier, slower, and less fit version of those two. So Lancaster is once again picking his usual, generic flanker rather than specialist. 6'2"-6'4", 17st, and a good engine.

At the moment it's justified(ish) on form, but post World Cup I'll put money on him persisting with generic flankers and our back row's balance continuing to suffer as a result. England could pick Kvesic at 7, move Robshaw across, and between Kvesic, Robshaw, Launchbury, and Cole have an incredibly competitive team at the breakdown. They could pick Ewers at 6, taking the flak off Binny/Ben, creating indecision and providing a much-needed boost to the pack's carrying. But no, Flankers who carry a lot (for half a yard), get over the ball a lot (but win maybe two turnovers a game), and make 15-20 tackles a game (but never drive the ball-carrier back) are the order of the day (and foreseeable future).

And the lineout would have Launchbury and Lawes as primary jumpers, Robshaw and Morgan as secondary. Pick hooker who can throw and all the pieces are there.
 
At the end of the day though, the likelihood of the fourth flanker playing any significant amount of time is pretty slim. They'll be relying on there being two injuries realistically for them to play any more than token minutes against Uruguay.

I can see the logic in picking a similar player as you won't want to make changes to the game plan to accommodate them.

For what it's worth I would have loved seeing a Ewers-style player at 6, or a Kvesic-style player at 7, but with two months until the World Cup it'd be stupid to change the game plan that's been built towards for 4 years up to this point.
 
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Soo apparently Foden, Simpson and Croft have been called into camp... :D
Is it just me, or would that seem a bit silly if you called someone into camp this week, only to cut them on Friday? maybe to assess their respective injuries before making final decision? Either way Simpson>>> Dickson+Care atm, would happily take Foden >Goode too
Oh, and from PR forum, apparently May has really impressed the coaches so far and Morgan has been doing some maul work (must be near full fitness/contact ready). I wouldn't be at all surprised if Foden, Brown, Nowell, May and Roko ended up as the back 3 in the 31 now.

All pretty encouraging news from my viewpoint- what does everyone else make of this?
 
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Assuming Foden is fit I'd love to see him in the squad as the second full back. He's got plenty of international experience and was in some of the best form I've seen him before injury. Simpson might be a good bench option, depends who we're playing. Croft, I suppose it's good for him to be training for the coaches to see whether he's fit and ready.
 
Just think of the back row balance if we had Armitage at 7 and Robshaw at 6.. God dammit!
 
At the end of the day though, the likelihood of the fourth flanker playing any significant amount of time are pretty slim. They'll be relying on there being two injuries realistically for them to play any more than token minutes against Uruguay.

I can see the logic in picking a similar player as you won't want to make changes to the game plan to accommodate them.

For what it's worth I would have loved seeing a Ewers-style player at 6, or a Kvesic-style player at 7, but with two months until the World Cup it'd be stupid to change the game plan that's been built towards for 4 years up to this point.

I wish we could play both :) would mean an eight who could jump, but with Hughes, Beaumont, teaching Morgan or teaching Kvesic to jump, it's not insurmountable.

I can't see Foden or Simpson making the squad- Lanky hasn't picked them recently, I doubt he'll pick them now. Croft on the other hand- "athleticism" is one of Lancaster's fetishes, so it's not impossible.
 
Foden is the one I want to see in the squad most simply because I'm that unhappy about the cover for Mike Brown. Goode's limitations are well known but most damning to me is that both he and Brown are specialist full-backs. Foden's claims as a wing are slightly dodgy, but they're stronger than either of the other. Plus I would genuinely leave Watson at Bath, he's a fantastic ball carrier and athlete but his defensive game and option taking did not look good to me in the 6N matches I've rewatched.

I would also like to see Croft in the squad. I remain convinced that he's a world class player at his best. He also adds something different. Just how badly I'd want him depends slightly on how Wood and Haskell perform; at their best, we can live without him.

Simpson... would be interesting to see if it transferred to the international arena.
 
Foden is the one I want to see in the squad most simply because I'm that unhappy about the cover for Mike Brown. Goode's limitations are well known but most damning to me is that both he and Brown are specialist full-backs. Foden's claims as a wing are slightly dodgy, but they're stronger than either of the other. Plus I would genuinely leave Watson at Bath, he's a fantastic ball carrier and athlete but his defensive game and option taking did not look good to me in the 6N matches I've rewatched.

I would also like to see Croft in the squad. I remain convinced that he's a world class player at his best. He also adds something different. Just how badly I'd want him depends slightly on how Wood and Haskell perform; at their best, we can live without him.

Simpson... would be interesting to see if it transferred to the international arena.

What about using cipriani as the backup full back? Then we don't have. Need for goode at all.
 
I think I'd absolutely fill my pants if Cipriani had to start a major match at full-back. There's worse ideas in the world, but I don't think anyone knows if he's genuinely got the positioning and aerial skills for it at the moment. Wouldn't be adverse to him getting a major spell in one of the warm-ups to see though.
 
Him starting at 15 would mean we'd lost both Brown and Goode/Foden to injury, and not bothered with calling up the other.
 
No just No.

Agreed. Has become some kind of fashionable fetish.

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I think I'd absolutely fill my pants if Cipriani had to start a major match at full-back. There's worse ideas in the world, but I don't think anyone knows if he's genuinely got the positioning and aerial skills for it at the moment. Wouldn't be adverse to him getting a major spell in one of the warm-ups to see though.

Just imagine all the high balls being sent his way.

he did a fine job going forward when he had an extended run there with Wasps, but he was a kid then. Confident, attacking, with scant regard for defense or positioning. Would be nice to see him at 10 against Uruguay, as he could really orchestrate a big win, but too much of a luxury.
 
No just No.

At the end of the day Armitage is an incredible player but I don't want them to change the whole system for him . If he came back to England (which I can't see happening now) I'd love it if he got picked . I'm happy that Lancaster has stuck by his guns
 
No just No.

Why would you not have Armatige, one of the best 7's in the world.. It's like being able to pick Maccaw or pocock and just not picking them, that's dumb.. (I was saying, as if Armitage was eligible)
 
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