[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[TheSaffycen]

Interesting question. I feel like George probably has the edge for defensive work rate and accuracy (although Youngs is no slouch) but Youngs is probably a more consistently useful carrier (again, George is no slouch). Can't really remember what George is like at the breakdown, Youngs is decent there. Handling's good for both insofar as I've noticed.

I wouldn't be surprised if George turned out to be one of the revelations of the World Cup, now I think about it.

He is genuinely great over the ball, like most Sarries forwards its an area we've worked on.

As for carrying I would want Youngs carrying hard, George might be better on a break but there isn't much between them.

 

[ZeroTwo]

I fully rate George and LCD at club. However come international time there can be a hella big jump up for technical front row positions. Someone with a higher level of front row experience than me (so basically any experience at all) would have to explain it but I see a lot of good club front rowers not take the step up easily. Similar to other crunch positions.

Having two inexperienced hookers going to a World Cup is a big risk that one, if not both, don't hack it.

 

[goodNumber10]

Here is a thought about Burgess, maybe they are keen to get him into the midfield because of his breakdown work.

 

[nickdnz]

Here is a thought about Burgess, maybe they are keen to get him into the midfield because of his breakdown work.

It is surely why you would select any league forward :lol:.

I know Burgess isn't bad at the breakdown, but I have to think selecting Burgess had designs on it before he even stepped on the field for Bath. I would imagine he had thoughts about Burgess in the centers prior him signing for Bath. If anything I think his time in the loose-forwards has probably been a spanner in the works for Lancaster.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Here is a thought about Burgess, maybe they are keen to get him into the midfield because of his breakdown work.

Didn't Joseph top the turnover stats in the Aviva a couple of seasons ago?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It is surely why you would select any league forward :lol:.

I know Burgess isn't bad at the breakdown, but I have to think selecting Burgess had designs on it before he even stepped on the field for Bath. I would imagine he had thoughts about Burgess in the centers prior him signing for Bath. If anything I think his time in the loose-forwards has probably been a spanner in the works for Lancaster.

Sssshhhhh, you're not allowed to insinuate Burgess is in the squad based on anything other than his clear dominance in the aviva this season!

Didn't Joseph top the turnover stats in the Aviva a couple of seasons ago?

First I've heard of it!

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...-joseph-england-italy-six-nations-rugby-union

"His management of the breakdowns out wide has really come on, but also his confidence, his presence in the team — he's a real leader, which is fantastic and has grown on the back of some good work at Bath." -Stuart Lancaster, mentions breakdowns but not turnovers. I didn't imagine this did I?

Anyone else remember this, or have I hallucinated it?

 

[yaboyjj]

I like the idea of Vunipola-Youngs-Cole to be replaced as a unit by Marler-George-Wilson, to apply scrum pressure later on in the game.

If you were to start Mako, I'd want to make sure that Brookes is on the bench for some type of carrying/physicality front row impact for when Mako goes off, it's entirely possible that LCD is the perfect impact sub for the front row- in which case the need would be lessened though.
I think having George somewhere in the 23 might be a good idea though- I'm not sure I completely trust either LCD or Youngs to throw under significant pressure from the opposition as neither are purebred hookers (ie, in the event of the starting hooker having a lineout shocker, George is a very solid set piece player- maybe especially needed if Attwood also comes on from bench).
so maybe: Vunipola, Youngs, Cole- George, Marler, Brookes or .....Vunipola, Youngs, Cole- LCD, Marler, Wilson
(although imo, Wilson is on the down and Brookes on the rise).

RE Youngs v George, imo Youngs is one of the best hookers in the world round the field and is a real pocket battleship- I think LCD might be the only one close to the physicality he brings. George brings a different skillset- he's good over the ball and certainly has a decent turn of pace- pretty good link/support player with a massive engine, maybe the best rounded player of the lot actually (his looks are deceiving- fat boy strength in scrum I reckon too, moreso than Britts).

 

[Peat]

Didn't Joseph top the turnover stats in the Aviva a couple of seasons ago?

He was top at a fairly advanced part of the season for London Irish in one of his last seasons there according to Brian Smith. Don't know about more recently.

Zero-Two - I'd agree there's a big jump up. I'd back George to have a a fair chance of making it, as he seems to have very solid fundamentals, he's a hooker's hooker who just also happens to have a fair mix of pace and size and who is willing to work like a dog in the loose. There doesn't seem to be anything about him that points to a weakness that can be exposed at the next level up. LCD would be more of a gamble at this stage.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

He was top at a fairly advanced part of the season for London Irish in one of his last seasons there according to Brian Smith. Don't know about more recently.

That sounds right, thanks Peat.

Easter's back in the training squad, having missed Denver due to injury. It's frustrating that he's in rather than Waldrom (kind of past it, but less past it), Ewers, Evans, etc.

 

[yaboyjj]

That sounds right, thanks Peat.

Easter's back in the training squad, having missed Denver due to injury. It's frustrating that he's in rather than Waldrom (kind of past it, but less past it), Ewers, Evans, etc.

He's in as 8 cover with ability to play lock whilst Morgan is injured (not really competing with Ewers)- moreover he has the international experience string to his bow which Waldrom/Evans don't really have. He won't make the 31 though

 

[Peat]

Personally I was pleasantly surprised at how not-past it he looked during the 6N. Whether he'd stand the pace in a really high-tempo game I don't know, but he still has the ability to carry hard and a good pair of hands. I certainly don't think he's a bad option for right now.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Personally I was pleasantly surprised at how not-past it he looked during the 6N. Whether he'd stand the pace in a really high-tempo game I don't know, but he still has the ability to carry hard and a good pair of hands. I certainly don't think he's a bad option for right now.

I agree and with his experience he's a better safer option than ewers etc who are good but lacking the experience old minty has. He can be our new Simon shaw

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I can see the logic ahead of the RWC for experience and tried and tested consistency, but afterwards I'll be irritated if he's not replaced- by Josh Beaumont, if you want 8/lock versatility.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think there's any chance of Easter being in the mix post RWC - he's there because he's got the experience to slot in, if there's an injury, with minimum fuss (after a very good season at Quins).

 

[Maverick1987]

When will the 9 get cut from the squad guys ?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've not seen a date reported anywhere, just at some point before the first warm up game :huh:


The Cipriani saga has been drawn out even longer, with him being re-bailed until mid-November, meaning he's eligible (under Lancaster's Law) to play in the RWC if Lancs wants him.

 

[Peat]

How very convenient :lol:

Just as a mild tangent to Orange's post - but we're incredibly lucky with how few guys we have in contention who'll need immediate disposing of afterwards. The only real worry is how basically all of our flankers fall into the may/may not make it category for 2019 and that's pretty minor.

 

[Geordie]

How very convenient :lol:

Just as a mild tangent to Orange's post - but we're incredibly lucky with how few guys we have in contention who'll need immediate disposing of afterwards. The only real worry is how basically all of our flankers fall into the may/may not make it category for 2019 and that's pretty minor.

With in no particular order:

Clifford
Burgess
Kvesic
Ewers
Itjoe (I hope he focuses on 6)
Will Fraser (if he stays injury free)
etc etc

We shouldn't have an issue replacing a few retirements.

 

[Crapspray]

When will the 9 get cut from the squad guys ?

Daily Wail is saying Friday. Cut to 37 or 38 from 46, and confirms that Easter has rejoined the squad post-Denver. I wonder why they're unsure about the final number (that is, who's the player on the knife edge). Final cut to 31 is on the 31st of August, five days before the Ireland test.

It worries me that Clark is name-checked as "making a stong impression" in the article. Looks like Lancaster will choose a fourth 6.5 instead of the specialist (Kvesic).

Also, the article says "Rob Webber is destined to be his [Tom Youngs'] understudy, with Jamie George and Luke Cowan-Dickie vying for the final squad place". Which is as expected, but I hope to God he's recovered some form after last season. Not sure who I'd pick of the two youngsters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3183164/England-endured-brutal-World-Cup-training-camp-America-s-decision-time-Stuart-Lancaster-survive-chop.html

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It's all academic with Cipriani. I've already scheduled my dentist appointment for a few days after I've ground my teeth away seeing Goode picked ahead of him.